My book report pt1

[downbeatplumb]

I have been. Again this guys is either the smartest dumb guy on the planet or he is intentionally twisting the facts to make an argument. I will visit all of his major points no matter how long it takes. But as we go I would like to take the time to help you all see the argument and how it can be resolves without 'rewritting' the gospels as he claims.

Oh... any inconsistency in a fictional story can be resolved... just look at Star Wars!

The second films died for me when R2 D2 flew. There were so many times in the older films where that would have been handy but apparently it forgot it could do that.

[Drich]

Well then... why are there religions?

Because people want to worship A god. Just not the God of the bible. They want to build an image of themselves and then deify it, that way they can ensure eternal life without having to sacrifice/change anything.

That disqualify it as the word of an infallible perfect god, yes.

What makes you think that just because God is perfect, that the book that talks about him must also be perfect?

Is God the bible or is the bible God?
If the bible is not God then why do we look on it as having to be perfect?

And yes, I read the book a few months ago... but, being a bit ignorant of the bible itself, I couldn't analyze as well as you may.

The point I was trying to make was you said any 'fiction' can be reconciled, "just look at star wars." Which is at odds with what Bart said. "the bible has several key irreconcilable differences between the accounts."

Which means you are wrong if you hold that the bible is a work a fiction, Bart is wrong in what he said, or the bible is not a work of fiction..

---

Oh... any inconsistency in a fictional story can be resolved... just look at Star Wars!

The second films died for me when R2 D2 flew. There were so many times in the older films where that would have been handy but apparently it forgot it could do that.

the thing is with fiction it can be added upon to explain things like this.

By the time R2 was in episode 4 he was obsolete and partially non functional as per his problem with the 'help me obi wan kneobi' message he was stuck playing in a loop.

[pocaracas]

Oh... any inconsistency in a fictional story can be resolved... just look at Star Wars!

The second films died for me when R2 D2 flew. There were so many times in the older films where that would have been handy but apparently it forgot it could do that.

I hear you! First movie, ep IV... Tatooine... why get the wheels full of sand when you can fly and leave no hint of where you've gone to?

[LastPoet]

So the those who honestly don't want to be with God have a unobstructed opportunity to show themselves what is really in their Heart.

Think back to when you were a child. Were you the same or different around your friends, as you were around your parents?

With God out of your 'view' you can be who you truly are for a while. That way when your judgement comes you will know without doubt that your judgement is indeed just.

(bolded mine)

Judgement? Do you think I fear your vain christian threats as if your superhero god had anything to do with reality? What mockery of human intelect you are, just for saying that. Nevertheless, shouldn't you be presenting evidence that your particular god even exists?

[pocaracas]

Well then... why are there religions?

Because people want to worship A god. Just not the God of the bible. They want to build an image of themselves and then deify it, that way they can ensure eternal life without having to sacrifice/change anything.

"the god of the bible"... There were religions before the bible... what god was this, back then?
The god of the torah? There were religions before the torah... what god was this, back then?
The god of Abraham? There were religions before Abraham... (What century is this guy supposed to have lived on?) what god was this, back then?

So, it seems, at that time, either people really wanted to worship whatever god they came up with... or the one true god was popping up all over the place and being misrepresented by the people... or a mix of the two options.
I lean to the first option.

That disqualify it as the word of an infallible perfect god, yes.

What makes you think that just because God is perfect, that the book that talks about him must also be perfect?

Is God the bible or is the bible God?
If the bible is not God then why do we look on it as having to be perfect?

Aren't you the one who said that god is the alpha and omega, as if this god is everything. Is god the bible?... apparently, yes.
Is the bible god? just a piece of the guy, no? god seems to be so much more than the bible, as we can see so much more than the bible around us.

And yes, I read the book a few months ago... but, being a bit ignorant of the bible itself, I couldn't analyze as well as you may.

The point I was trying to make was you said any 'fiction' can be reconciled, "just look at star wars." Which is at odds with what Bart said. "the bible has several key irreconcilable differences between the accounts."

Which means you are wrong if you hold that the bible is a work a fiction, Bart is wrong in what he said, or the bible is not a work of fiction..

If you look at the bible's NT as an accurate representation of the events (as many do) then you arrive at Bart's conclusion.
If you look at the bible's NT as a work of fiction, even if based on some real elements, then you couldn't care less that the differences are irreconcilable... it's fiction, written by several authors, it's expected... Ask any fiction writer, specially those who write several books to cover one story, like Harry Potter, or the Song of Fire and Ice... it's a nightmare making everything fit together nicely.
I'd be very surprised if no differences were to be found in such a huge tome.

The second films died for me when R2 D2 flew. There were so many times in the older films where that would have been handy but apparently it forgot it could do that.

the thing is with fiction it can be added upon to explain things like this.

By the time R2 was in episode 4 he was obsolete and partially non functional as per his problem with the 'help me obi wan kneobi' message he was stuck playing in a loop.

Now you're just adding to the cannon. I have to admit, it does make sense!
See how easily it can be done?

[Drich]

The second films died for me when R2 D2 flew. There were so many times in the older films where that would have been handy but apparently it forgot it could do that.

I hear you! First movie, ep IV... Tatooine... why get the wheels full of sand when you can fly and leave no hint of where you've gone to?

Even if he could fly, flying= massive fuel consumption, plus turbines and sand do not play well together. add the possiablity Kenny baker probably would have pooped himself if he were made to fly his r2 costume.

[Minimalist]

That should be enough to get us started. If there are no questions or objection I will post the next few segments.

If all you are going to do is quote previously done-to-death apologetic bullshit like carm.org, Drippy ( not that I expect you are capable of anything more) you may as well not waste your time.

The ability of xtians to twist their balls into pretzels trying to explain away the obvious problems in your bullshit texts ( problems which have been known for 300 years prior to Ehrman's writings, btw) is well-established.

As noted here:

Bible-believers are full of clever (and some not so clever) rationalizations. The crucial question, however, is not whether "answers" can be generated in response to Bible difficulties but whether credible answers can be produced. What is the best explanation? Bible-believers seem to think that any loophole, however improbable, that gets the Bible off the hook has solved the problem.

You sprinkle some bullshit around, go "whew, that was close" and toddle off praising fucking jesus as if you have convinced anyone.

You have not. The problems remain and are clear for anyone who is not blinded by heavenly horseshit.

[Ryantology]

With God out of your 'view' you can be who you truly are for a while. That way when your judgement comes you will know without doubt that your judgement is indeed just.

One of the more repulsive implications about the Christian faith is the insistence that unconditional love be a one-way street. A god guilty of so many horrifying crimes has no right to judge anybody whose crimes are lesser than his. And, since he has murdered virtually all of mankind, no human being is less righteous than Yahweh by any standard which values human life.

[Drich]

"the god of the bible"... There were religions before the bible... what god was this, back then?
The god of the torah? There were religions before the torah... what god was this, back then?
The god of Abraham? There were religions before Abraham... (What century is this guy supposed to have lived on?) what god was this, back then?

All of these titles describe the same God.

So, it seems, at that time, either people really wanted to worship whatever god they came up with... or the one true god was popping up all over the place and being misrepresented by the people... or a mix of the two options.
I lean to the first option.

-Or a viable 3rd option was in the instances you just listed the 'people' were just being faithful to the understanding of God given to them. Which is all god requires of us.

How foolish is it to think any one of us has a complete understanding of God. All we are ever given is a picture and all we can ever to is be faithful to the picture(s) we are given.

Aren't you the one who said that god is the alpha and omega, as if this god is everything.

Alpha and Omega mean beginning and end to everything. Meaning He has final say on what happens, and the power and authority to carry out whatever he wants done.

Is god the bible?... apparently, yes.

Uh, no. The bible is just a book that describes God and contains His law and the Gospel.

Is the bible god? just a piece of the guy, no?

No, The bible is an instruction manual. If your car it's owners manual? or is your owners manual your car? no the owners manual is just the book that tells you how to properly interact with your car.

god seems to be so much more than the bible, as we can see so much more than the bible around us.

So again would it not stand to then reason God is not the bible, and the bible is not God?

If you look at the bible's NT as an accurate representation of the events (as many do) then you arrive at Bart's conclusion.

how so?

If you look at the bible's NT as a work of fiction, even if based on some real elements, then you couldn't care less that the differences are irreconcilable... it's fiction, written by several authors, it's expected... Ask any fiction writer, specially those who write several books to cover one story, like Harry Potter, or the Song of Fire and Ice... it's a nightmare making everything fit together nicely.
I'd be very surprised if no differences were to be found in such a huge tome.

but these are not the objections Bart brings up. His primary reasoning centers around that each book was written in such a way as to be completely oblivious to anything else written, which is why there are continuity issues.
However the only way this all works is if you assume as he does the writters all had the same modern understanding as to how to write a unified account, and simply failed at coming up with a consistent story.

Now you're just adding to the cannon. I have to admit, it does make sense!
See how easily it can be done?

So, you are saying my reconciliation of Bart's book "makes sense?"

---

That should be enough to get us started. If there are no questions or objection I will post the next few segments.

If all you are going to do is quote previously done-to-death apologetic bullshit like carm.org, Drippy ( not that I expect you are capable of anything more) you may as well not waste your time.

The ability of xtians to twist their balls into pretzels trying to explain away the obvious problems in your bullshit texts ( problems which have been known for 300 years prior to Ehrman's writings, btw) is well-established.

As noted here:

Bible-believers are full of clever (and some not so clever) rationalizations. The crucial question, however, is not whether "answers" can be generated in response to Bible difficulties but whether credible answers can be produced. What is the best explanation? Bible-believers seem to think that any loophole, however improbable, that gets the Bible off the hook has solved the problem.

You sprinkle some bullshit around, go "whew, that was close" and toddle off praising fucking jesus as if you have convinced anyone.

You have not. The problems remain and are clear for anyone who is not blinded by heavenly horseshit.

For some reason Minnie I expected more from you. but all you care to do is appeal to a red herring and move to dismiss what is being discussed without actually addressing the topic.

I'm Truly disappointed, after all this faith breaking book report was your idea

---

With God out of your 'view' you can be who you truly are for a while. That way when your judgement comes you will know without doubt that your judgement is indeed just.

One of the more repulsive implications about the Christian faith is the insistence that unconditional love be a one-way street. A god guilty of so many horrifying crimes has no right to judge anybody whose crimes are lesser than his. And, since he has murdered virtually all of mankind, no human being is less righteous than Yahweh by any standard which values human life.

I ve said this several times now that God's love is very conditional. John 3:16 underscores this point, in that God so loved the world that He gave his only Son that who so ever Believes.... Did you see it That Who so Ever believes, is a condition. Which makes God's love conditional. Which breaks your whole argument in half.

[Minimalist]

But I did not expect more from you than the standard apologetic line of bullshit. You did not disappoint. Finer minds than yours have tried to gloss over the shit in your bible. They have failed. You had no chance.

Or a viable 3rd option was in the instances you just listed the 'people' were just being faithful to the understanding of God given to them.

"Given" by whom? Corrupt priests looking to maximize their own power over a credulous population. "God" is always on the side of the upper classes. "Render unto Caesar," you know.