Internet Smackdown Aftermath

[Walking Void]

Well that's a bit backhanded. Care to explain your beef?

If I had a beef would I have used the smiley face...

Not everything in these forums is a debate sometimes stupid sarcasm is needed.

Just listening to the other stuff made me want to say it.

Is it less true because I meant in humor?

What I really wish was that we didn't need any of them to have those jobs and that war ended and we dumped the money into medical and space research. Until then we sort of need them and I am very happy we use volunteers and not force people into service.

Just can't let them forget where the money comes from

To a degree I agree with your post. My suggestion for the possible state of the world achieving peace (distant) is not to trash all of our military resources and information but to preserve it through museums, firing ranges, demolition sites and training facilities.

[Captain Colostomy]

You're damned lucky that us Army guys let you live.

You are all lucky tax payers dollars exist to employ you...

Service members do, too. Guess that makes them self employed.

[Creed of Heresy]

It IS actually a thing I tend to bring up whenever I get into it with military guys who think that because they've served in the military that their opinions on politics and the military's place in American politics is somehow ironclad and incapable of being criticized. Whenever they bring up the "Well, until you've served you don't have any right to criticize," I just coolly reply "I was one of several hundred million signatures your paychecks, so yes, I do, actually."

That's just how society works. You don't get to back-talk to your employer. It's one thing to be respected for your service. It's another to stake claim that BECAUSE you served, your opinions on matters regarding military policy are somehow superior to anyone/everyone else's who DIDN'T serve.

This does not pertain to anyone here who has served, nor is it a generalized statement towards all US servicemembers, but I find it uncomfortable and aggravating when I am told by a soldier that they "served for me" like this was a one-way street. Because, yes, they did...but they did so with money I paid into taxes. In a sense, I paid for them to serve. They got something out of it. It wasn't like they served and got nothing, which seems often to be the case with some servicemembers I speak with; they have a mentality that we should feel so lucky that they serve for us, as if they're deigning us merely worthy to let us be served by them.

I say this as a guy who has a brother in the Rangers, who does NOT imply such nor does he throw his veterancy around into the faces of civvies. If a guy who can manage to serve for over a decade in constant combat operations in one of the most elite units in the US military can manage to NOT try to use it as a superiority trip...why can't so many others?

I'm probably gonna piss at least a few people off with that post, and believe me, that's NOT my intention, I'm just stating an observation.

[gall]

Just can't let them forget where the money comes from

So using smiley faces makes it less backhanded? Do you really think we don't realize from whence our wages spring?

"Great job defending the country and our liberties, but dammit I'm a little irked that you're getting some of my monies."

I had this whole big response typed up and deleted it.

Stop reading into this I was only being sarcastic. Something I am sure you have done many times. If you felt it was in bad taste just say that, you don't need to challenge me to a street side gun fight.

I am not rejecting soldiers or how we pay them in my statement. I wasn't really doing anything but tossing it out. I understand that it could have been taking wrong and if it was know that it was not intended.

My response that I deleted was not nice and I realize that if I only do that on the internet I am just as bad as you apparently think I am. I am just a human just like you just like those soldiers who are also human first. I am thankful they protect us abroad. I am doubly thankful they don't currently need to protect us on our own soil really and pray they never need to.

Keep sucking up the money boys... I would rather see it in your pockets and for your families than in a politicians pocket or wasted on shit the government doesn't need. Don't mistake my sarcasm for disdain. I was just born an ass.

[Captain Colostomy]

Y'all are welcome to piss all over the Air Force, guys...I have for years! :p

[Creed of Heresy]

You are all lucky tax payers dollars exist to employ you...

Service members do, too. Guess that makes them self employed.

Not when they are deployed in an active war zone. When stationed non-combat in the US, they do pay taxes, but deployed overseas, at least in combat, they do not pay any taxes.

[Bad Writer]

It IS actually a thing I tend to bring up whenever I get into it with military guys who think that because they've served in the military that their opinions on politics and the military's place in American politics is somehow ironclad and incapable of being criticized. Whenever they bring up the "Well, until you've served you don't have any right to criticize," I just coolly reply "I was one of several hundred million signatures your paychecks, so yes, I do, actually."

That's just how society works. You don't get to back-talk to your employer. It's one thing to be respected for your service. It's another to stake claim that BECAUSE you served, your opinions on matters regarding military policy are somehow superior to anyone/everyone else's who DIDN'T serve.

This does not pertain to anyone here who has served, nor is it a generalized statement towards all US servicemembers, but I find it uncomfortable and aggravating when I am told by a soldier that they "served for me" like this was a one-way street. Because, yes, they did...but they did so with money I paid into taxes. In a sense, I paid for them to serve. They got something out of it. It wasn't like they served and got nothing, which seems often to be the case with some servicemembers I speak with; they have a mentality that we should feel so lucky that they serve for us, as if they're deigning us merely worthy to let us be served by them.

I say this as a guy who has a brother in the Rangers, who does NOT imply such nor does he throw his veterancy around into the faces of civvies. If a guy who can manage to serve for over a decade in constant combat operations in one of the most elite units in the US military can manage to NOT try to use it as a superiority trip...why can't so many others?

I'm probably gonna piss at least a few people off with that post, and believe me, that's NOT my intention, I'm just stating an observation.

I get where you're coming from, and knowing a humble soldier is a treat indeed. However, it's very presumptuous of you to call yourself my employer. That would imply that you were given the choice of hiring me, and we all know that's not true.

---

Service members do, too. Guess that makes them self employed.

Not when they are deployed in an active war zone. When stationed non-combat in the US, they do pay taxes, but deployed overseas, at least in combat, they do not pay any taxes.

What's your point?

[gall]

It IS actually a thing I tend to bring up whenever I get into it with military guys who think that because they've served in the military that their opinions on politics and the military's place in American politics is somehow ironclad and incapable of being criticized. Whenever they bring up the "Well, until you've served you don't have any right to criticize," I just coolly reply "I was one of several hundred million signatures your paychecks, so yes, I do, actually."

That's just how society works. You don't get to back-talk to your employer. It's one thing to be respected for your service. It's another to stake claim that BECAUSE you served, your opinions on matters regarding military policy are somehow superior to anyone/everyone else's who DIDN'T serve.

This does not pertain to anyone here who has served, nor is it a generalized statement towards all US servicemembers, but I find it uncomfortable and aggravating when I am told by a soldier that they "served for me" like this was a one-way street. Because, yes, they did...but they did so with money I paid into taxes. In a sense, I paid for them to serve. They got something out of it. It wasn't like they served and got nothing, which seems often to be the case with some servicemembers I speak with; they have a mentality that we should feel so lucky that they serve for us, as if they're deigning us merely worthy to let us be served by them.

I say this as a guy who has a brother in the Rangers, who does NOT imply such nor does he throw his veterancy around into the faces of civvies. If a guy who can manage to serve for over a decade in constant combat operations in one of the most elite units in the US military can manage to NOT try to use it as a superiority trip...why can't so many others?

I'm probably gonna piss at least a few people off with that post, and believe me, that's NOT my intention, I'm just stating an observation.

I get where you're coming from, and knowing a humble soldier is a treat indeed. However, it's very presumptuous of you to call yourself my employer. That would imply that you were given the choice of hiring me, and we all know that's not true.

---

Not when they are deployed in an active war zone. When stationed non-combat in the US, they do pay taxes, but deployed overseas, at least in combat, they do not pay any taxes.

What's your point?

If a soldier does not view themselves as an agent and employee of the people of the united states of America of which I am one and one that pays his taxes then something is wrong in how we indoctrinate soldiers.

I do not see them as my employee I see them as my bodyguard. They may not guard my body personally but they guard our interests and there are many in the world that would love to tell me what I can do with my actual body. They protect our ability to not be persecuted for believing as we will. Say in things like god or the choice not to believe in gods. They are an employee of the people that is how I feel about it.

[Creed of Heresy]

Exactly, I have to help pay for your pay, and benefits, and equipment, whether I like it or not. I wouldn't call it presumptuous to say that, I would call it generous to state it as such, especially that I don't go around telling servicemen that I have no choice but to pay for their equipment and their payment and their benefits. Hell, you had to remind me of that before I said it.

And my point was to address Captain's. I don't mind soldiers remaining in country. Not because they're "self employed" but because it means they're not having to risk their damn lives, most likely for a conflict or war that doesn't serve the American people for shit.

But when they're deployed overseas, it's not in my interests, and most likely, it's not in the interests of the vast majority of Americans, either. I get that a lot of soldiers take pride in that they are SERVICEmembers, and I respect them for that, too, but I can't give respect to certain claims they make when they are, unfortunately, patently false, or presumptuous.

There's a fine line between respecting soldiers, and condescending them. I'm happy to say I respect them, and I don't condescend.

[gall]

Exactly, I have to help pay for your pay, and benefits, and equipment, whether I like it or not. I wouldn't call it presumptuous to say that, I would call it generous to state it as such, especially that I don't go around telling servicemen that I have no choice but to pay for their equipment and their payment and their benefits. Hell, you had to remind me of that before I said it.

And my point was to address Captain's. I don't mind soldiers remaining in country. Not because they're "self employed" but because it means they're not having to risk their damn lives, most likely for a conflict or war that doesn't serve the American people for shit.

But when they're deployed overseas, it's not in my interests, and most likely, it's not in the interests of the vast majority of Americans, either. I get that a lot of soldiers take pride in that they are SERVICEmembers, and I respect them for that, too, but I can't give respect to certain claims they make when they are, unfortunately, patently false, or presumptuous.

There's a fine line between respecting soldiers, and condescending them. I'm happy to say I respect them, and I don't condescend.

You don't pay a soldier respect just for the title do you?

Personally people in my life earn respect just as I have had to with every person I have ever met.

As a body of "soldiers" I do not see them as an individual and I pay not institution respect. No god, religion, creed, political body. They are all of people and I can choose to or not choose to respect the individual and that is as far as it goes. Your actions earn respect or disrespect not your "station" in life. Many people have station they do not deserve and get paid much respect for something they never earned.

Gratitude yes for the service...respect if they earn it. Simple service is not enough. I sure won't be paying homage to the guy signing the request forms or cleaning bathrooms in kansas on base. Sorry but if I do that I would have to do so for anyone driving a bus or a cab or most other service jobs...hell I work in a service job but I can promise when you work in IT even your actions get you no respect no matter how many problems you solve a day for your coworkers that allow them to actually do their jobs. Earned not just given.