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Genocide in the Old Testament
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 (September 21, 2013 at 7:47 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:(September 21, 2013 at 6:53 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: God doesnt need to justify His actions. Because the term "need to" suggests that God is compelled. By who? God "needs to" or else what ???  RE: Genocide in the Old Testament
September 21, 2013 at 9:40 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2013 at 9:47 pm by Beta Ray Bill.)
(September 21, 2013 at 9:24 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: Oh I'm quite right on this one too. Ahab the wicked murderous war lord idolater starts it. God finishes it. Sir, your statement was: Every time we see war and violence in the bible, it is started by humans. And God only intervenes to bring it to a hasty conclusion. "Justified" or not, God did nothing to bring it to a hasty conclusion. He was happy about it. My context fits quite well with your statement, since you made no reference to justification. Which I fail to see.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha "Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it." - Dennis McKinsey  (September 21, 2013 at 9:40 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: God did nothing to bring it to a hasty conclusion. Not only that. In many instances, god informs the humans to go to war or to kill and to do other horrible things in his name.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter  (September 21, 2013 at 9:31 pm)Lion IRC Wrote:(September 21, 2013 at 7:47 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Okay why is it your god does not need to justify his actions? "He" needs to justify "his" actions to those who are affected by them, just as you assert developers of terrible weapons do.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 (September 15, 2013 at 6:16 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Well, what do you expect from a religion that seeks to devalue humanity as a whole? Christianity tells us we are just pawns in god's plan, not worthy of such fanciful notions as inalienable rights. We're flawed beings sent to wallow in our own pain and misery that deserve nothing but, and any sort of pleasure or good must be groveled for from the teat of the lord. You must be a Calvinist atheist.
I don't put God into the same category as humans.
...I don't worship humans. (September 21, 2013 at 10:03 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: ...I don't worship humans. You should. We actually exist, as opposed to your god.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter (September 21, 2013 at 10:03 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: I don't put God into the same category as humans. But you worship an angry, jealous deity. I would rather believe in a god of love, then one who self-admittedly deals with human emotions. If any modern country ran around wiping out as many cities as the Jews did "for God," everyone would unite to stop them, then prosecute them for war crimes. No war is justified, and any god that says they are is not benevolent. God should have loved everyone, and not just gave the Jews permission to wipe out their enemies. God could have just caused Ahab to fall down a set of stairs to get rid of him, but no, he let a massacre ensue. That is not benevolence, that is heartless favoritism. And that is not love, or reality. God should love all man, and never "justify" a war, but he doesn't.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha "Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it." - Dennis McKinsey 
Lemonvariable72
Copenhagen School  Religious Views: Its all bullshit to keep you handing money to the usher. (September 21, 2013 at 9:31 pm)Lion IRC Wrote:(September 21, 2013 at 7:47 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Okay why is it your god does not need to justify his actions? Or else he is nothing more then a petty hypocrite that takes pleasure in judging us at the end but will not allow himself to be judged. It does not matter what he is, if his actions were such that we should follow them instead of his words alone he would be first in line to judged, so that we may know he is just in his judgements. Oh and he murdered his own son so that he may offer capricious and vicarious redemption here is a video detailing how it would work if we used it in a court. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAUhadJzTk
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.  RE: Genocide in the Old Testament
September 22, 2013 at 7:51 am
(This post was last modified: September 22, 2013 at 7:52 am by Tonus.)
It certainly makes you wonder why a being so grand and powerful that humans are just a speck upon a speck upon a speck within his magnificent creation, is so needy. If these insignificant dots in an insignificant corner of this ultra-massive and remarkably awesome universe don't figure out this odd puzzle required to acknowledge him, he massacres them. Sometimes, just to show how malicious and petty he is, he orders them to massacre each other. But the largest-scale killing is by his own hand, when he wipes out nearly every living creature with a flood. Why? Because they didn't pay him any mind.
Think about it. A being of such immense power compared to us that we may as well consider him omni-everything. To call ourselves gnats in comparison is to overstate our own worth. He has crafted a universe so large that we can define it numerically but the scale is simply too big for us to truly comprehend; but he spun it right off of his figures the way we'd make a clay pot. Our Sun, just one of possibly trillions that he had made, could wipe us and our world out with a large enough flare. And he desperately needs for us to tell him how great he is, on pain of death and eternal suffering. That strikes me as utterly nonsensical.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould |
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