the so fallible Bible

[John V]

Good to know you're as vile and evil as the monster you worship. At least I'd end suffering if I could, you seem to revel in it and use that as an excuse to not help the poor.

Do you reduce suffering to the maximum extent that you can?

[Brakeman]

Drich, I am quite sure that you understand in your heart that it is wrong and evil to cut a baby's throat.

Depends on the baby. For instance if you had the opportunity to cut baby Hitler's throat would you, or would you let millions die? Now from God's vantage point, He can not only see the individuals like Hitler, but also whole races of people who would prey on and destroy everyone else. Wouldn't god now be obligated to stop such a people from existing?

If I knew that a baby was destined to become a Hitler, and I have the powers of a God, I cam think of millions of ways to change that child's destiny that don't involve killing it. Taking it away from the factors that fostered the hate and teaching it better would be an easy choice. But retarded bible god only has the hatred tools that it's bronze age goat herders gave it, so it's pat answer is to kill, kill, kill.

There was nothing special about a baby Hitler, a baby Mao, or a baby Pol Pot, it is the environment and the mental health (lack of empathy) that make these men monsters.

[Minimalist]

Do you reduce suffering to the maximum extent that you can?

Yep...and so apparently does your phony god. Inept fucker, isn't he?

[Brakeman]

No the atomic bombing was not justified because the Japanese regime was already suing for peace, just not accepting unconditional surrender yet and it was not a strong military target. It was on the edge of being justified though, as it was not targeting the women and children.

That's a misleading description.

The Japanese Supreme Council for the Direction of the War was making secret overtures with the Soviet Union for an advantageous end to the war.

There is no evidence this was known to the U.S.

This is derailing the thread, as the historical argument of the Japanese surrender was not germane to the point I was making. However, when looking at history, I always advise to read both the loser and the winner's accounts, as the winners accounts are always first taken at face value. I've been to Truman's library and read his accounts, but I have also read some of the accounts from the Japanese which differ greatly. The truth is surely somewhere in between, but I would bet my money on the Japanese accounts here. I don't have links, as it was in college before the internet. but maybe I'll look back into it if my busy schedule ever allows it.

[Tonus]

Just because one can do something does not mean it should be done. Enter in 'Treat others as you would like to be treated.'

Unless you are god, or acting under his orders, yes?

Do you not know your own country's history? Are you not aware that every country that has ever claimed a stake in this planet has done the very SAME Thing? We may call it different things and we may sugar coat it today, but the same thing has happened over and over and over again since the dawn of man, Why is it now wrong for God to have regulated this act?

God didn't regulate the act, he endorsed it.

---

Only God is justified.
I was asking how humans justify genocide.

As far as I can tell, they have done so by pointing the finger back at an authority figure, as a way of excusing their own horrifying excesses. Nazi officers pointed at party leaders, who pointed at the high command, who pointed at Hitler. Ancient man pointed at "god."

---

And just how did the hypocrite thing get turned around on us atheists?

Once you go from "why doesn't god" to "why don't people" you are apt to get drawn in. Sure, you can say "but they have an obligation, check the Bible!" But I think everyone sees helping the poor as an ideal to strive for. "Why doesn't god intervene" is a good approach. "Why don't you intervene" is ripe for a comeback.

In any case, Christ gave mixed messages regarding wealth and wealth distribution. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more discussion regarding other things he said, as a way of deflecting criticism.

[Ryantology]

Only God is justified.

Special pleas, aisle 4.

I was asking how humans justify genocide.
Usually, they assert some sort of humanist, utilitarian...end justifies the means form of logic.

You justify it because you think your God ordered it and your god can do no wrong.

Come on. Stop deflecting.

Why, do you have exclusive rights?

Was the Enola Gay pilot justified in killing more people in Hiroshima than any soldier in Joshua's war against the Canaanites?

False equivocation. The Enola Gay wasn't on a mission to eradicate the Japanese race at the whim of a tyrannical overlord.

If the Nazis had been determined to fight to the very last man, woman and child, would their total annihilation by the Allies have been a necessary evil?

No, because that's impossible and stupid.

If Al Qaeda was a genetically discreet group/culture of people, would it be attempted genocide to wipe them out in a war on terror?

Yes, because that's also impossible and stupid.

Again, ask a Christian why an omni-smart and powerful God resorting to genocide is not an obvious example of barbaric bloodlust, and the best response you ever get is a comparison to non omni-everything humans, using examples with no real-world application. Why should anybody worship a god whose problem-solving skills are no better than theirs?

[Doubting Thomas]

Do you reduce suffering to the maximum extent that you can?

I do what I can.

[Ryantology]

Do you reduce suffering to the maximum extent that you can?

I also do what I can. But, we have no god telling us to do it. It not only makes it more meaningful with it's an act of personal initiative rather than the execution of orders, but it's also not an act of hypocrisy to refuse, because all we're doing is pointing out that you're supposed to "sell your possessions, and give to the needy" and the vast majority of Christians, including yourself, flat out ignore this command and expect Jesus to say "well, I understand, that would have left you incapable of being an asshat on the Internet in My name, so I'll give you a pass".

[Cyberman]

Not only do I try to reduce suffering to the best of my abilities and within my sphere of influence, I also try not to go out of my way to cause suffering. I don't consider myself any better or worse than other people, but it's interesting to me how far superior it makes me than the "God" character as depicted in the book worshipped by those who fear that god.

[John V]

I do what I can.

Really? Do you eschew all non-necessary expenditures for yourself so that you can give to others? Do you give all excess time you have to others? Do you seriously think anyone believes this?