Quran Contradiction Disproves Islam

[Polaris]

Quran Contradiction Disproves Islam

Sura 39:53
Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning],
do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins.
Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."


So if Allah forgives all sins, why is their an Islamic Hell?

Islam cannot be a true revelation from God in light of this sura. Unless Allah forgives all sins yet condemns us all despite forgiveness which redefines forgiveness in a rather unacceptable manner.

This book, the Quran is obviously then, not a revelation from Allah to an alleged self proclaimed, blowhard infallible prophet.

Cheerful Charlie

The view of Hell in Islam is a temporary state where the sins of mankind are burned away so that they may enter Heaven as clean servants.

[paulpablo]

Sofia I'm still very interested to hear from you about my last post which was about the definition of a contradiction.

Before this thread gets bogged down with what is and isn't hell in the Islamic tradition.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

I don't care to convince you that the qur'an is not authentic, I've already said what I'm concerned about is your idea of justice. You understand why if someone thinks torture is justice I would be concerned right? It's a simple question, is it justice or is it not? Since you've already said even if you think it isn't justice it wouldn't affect your god at all why not just say what you think?

Hi Pineapple, here is what i believe about justice..

- be just even if it is against near relatives
(http://quranicteachings.org/justice)

- an eye for an eye but forgiveness is better
(Al-Shura Chapter 42 : Verse 40 "And the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and his act brings about reformation, his reward is with Allah. Surely, He loves not the wrongdoers.")

Whoops. Sorry for the very late reply, I missed this post.

Ok so first of all the page you linked me to keeps saying be just but doesn't say what type of justice they believe in. So it answers nothing.

Second of all, forgiveness is the opposite of justice.

Thirdly, an eye for an eye doesn't describe hell. Hell is more like, eternal torture for an eye.

So you think hell isn't just, then?

[sofia86]

The view of Hell in Islam is a temporary state where the sins of mankind are burned away so that they may enter Heaven as clean servants.

please prove this statement using the Qur'an alone.

---

Sofia I'm still very interested to hear from you about my last post which was about the definition of a contradiction.

Before this thread gets bogged down with what is and isn't hell in the Islamic tradition.

Okay Paul,

An example of contradicting ideas:

1. You may eat the ice cream.
2. You may not eat the ice cream.

Another one:
1. Alison is a girl.
2. Alisan is not a girl.

anyway, I see what you mean by your first reply to me. It does seem contradictory now.
I will come back after I do more research on sins and forgiveness/repentance, which will definitely require some time before I can say for sure if the Qur'an is consistent in its message..or not.

peace.

---

Hi Pineapple, here is what i believe about justice..

- be just even if it is against near relatives
(http://quranicteachings.org/justice)

- an eye for an eye but forgiveness is better
(Al-Shura Chapter 42 : Verse 40 "And the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and his act brings about reformation, his reward is with Allah. Surely, He loves not the wrongdoers.")

Whoops. Sorry for the very late reply, I missed this post.

Ok so first of all the page you linked me to keeps saying be just but doesn't say what type of justice they believe in. So it answers nothing.

Second of all, forgiveness is the opposite of justice.

Thirdly, an eye for an eye doesn't describe hell. Hell is more like, eternal torture for an eye.

So you think hell isn't just, then?

1. Be just = the punishment (on earth) is equal to the damage inflicted to the victim(s) ... Qur'an verse 42:40.

2. Are you sure forgiveness is opposite of justice? That's like saying a surgeon is opposite of medical field. They could be relevant to one another.

3. What do you mean? Does justice on earth MUST be the same in the afterlife.. in the same currency?

[WesOlsen]

Forgiveness and justice are often used interchangeably in the abrahamic texts. God seems to often be described as all merciful, or as mega forgiving. But yes justice and mercy/forgiveness cannot be the same thing by definition, and are indeed quite opposite. Mercy/Forgiveness is essentially the suspension of justice.

If the judge lets a rapist off with a £50 fine then he has been merciful and forgiving (a bit much so most will no doubt agree) and thus justice hasn't really been delivered. If justice is delivered and the rapist is locked up for life, then the judge has not been forgiving or merciful. A surgeon and a medical field are too distantly related a concept to polarise, mercy and justice exist on the same scale of judgement and can indeed be seen as opposites or near-opposites. Forgiveness and mercy are the suspension of justice (for varying reasons in everyday circumstances). You can't be completely just and completely merciful. (Or eternally just and eternally merciful, as I think the Quran describes god as).

[pineapplebunnybounce]

1. Thanks for clarifying.

2. What WesOlsen said. I don't understand what you said about surgeons and medical field. Surgery is part of modern medicine.

3. I don't quite know how to answer this question since there is no such thing as an afterlife so I don't know what is SUPPOSED to happen there, I guess whatever people think will happen happens. But yea, theoretically, justice will still be the same thing this life and the next, especially when the crime is committed in THIS LIFE, with this finite "currency", it's not justice to punish indefinitely (this is according to your an eye for an eye idea of justice).

[Sleepy]

It clearly means Allah is capable of forgiving all sins.

[paulpablo]

It clearly means Allah is capable of forgiving all sins.

Well actually the sentence implies that he does forgive all sins, there's a difference between saying "this is something I do" to "This is something I can do".

The verse says

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. -- Sura 39:53

Yet he doesn't

Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.

Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right). -- Sura 4:116

Now this actually brings me back to another topic I asked a long long time ago.

I asked muslims why any christian would convert to Islam if they had already committed shirk and they are already destined for hell and I got told that they only get sent to hell if they commit shirk at the moment of death or something along those lines.
But the quran mentions nothing of the sort, it says god does not forgive shirk, it doesn't say

Allah forgiveth not shirk apart from he might forgive it later if you're very sorry and as long as you don't do it just before you die

It clearly says allah does not forgive shirk, so in fact if any other verses claim that god does forgive shirk as long as it isn't committed during death then this is also a contradiction.

[Rayaan]

The sin of shirk (polytheism/idol-worshipping) can also be forgiven, but only in the condition that one repents for this sin before his or her death.

This is mentioned in Surah Al-Zumar (The Groups) in verse 53 which says that all sins can be forgiven, and obviously the word "all" includes the sin of shirk as well. However, we don't stop reading right there; we have to continue reading in order to understand the full context of such a statement. When we do that, we see that "Allah forgives all sins" is immediately followed by another sentence which tells us to turn to our Lord in repentance "before the Penalty comes on you; after that you shall not be helped." And the penalty refers to the time of trials and punishments after death. So the Quran, in this particular verse, ties forgiveness of all sins with repentance (before death) by mentioning the two of them one after another as in the following:

"O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Turn to your Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you: after that you shall not be helped. And follow the best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the Penalty comes on you - of a sudden while you perceive not!" (Surah 39, Verses 53-55).

And when Allah says, "Allah forgives not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgives whom He pleases other sins than this" (Surah 4:116), that is not a contradiction because that just means that the sin of shirk will not be forgiven unless we sincerely repent for that particular sin before we die (per Surah 39:54), but every other sin may be forgiven depending on Allah's will.

Furthermore, the entire surah itself was being addressed mainly to the Quraish, who did believe in Allah but they believed in other gods as well (which is shirk), so they were not Muslims. The surah is offering a hope to those groups by telling them that your shirk will be forgiven if and only if you repent before death overtakes you, before the penalty comes to you. So there is still a chance for forgiveness.

The entire Surah is a most eloquent and effective address which was given some time before the emigration to Habash, in an environment filled with tyranny and persecution, ill-will and antagonism, at Makkah. It is a sermon whose addressees mainly are the unbelieving Quraish, although here and there the believers also have been addressed. In it the real aim of the invitation of Muhammad (upon whom be Allah's peace and blessings) had been enunciated, which is this: Man should adopt Allah's servitude sincerely, and should not pollute his God worship with the service of any other.

http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=39


So, basically:

Without repentance, Allah may forgive whatever sins that He wishes, but He does not forgive shirk. But with repentance, He forgives all sins including shirk.

It's not that difficult to understand.

[paulpablo]

The sin of shirk (polytheism/idol-worshipping) can also be forgiven, but only in the condition that one repents for this sin before his or her death.

This is mentioned in Surah Al-Zumar (The Groups) in verse 53 which says that all sins can be forgiven, and obviously the word "all" includes the sin of shirk as well. However, we don't stop reading right there; we have to continue reading in order to understand the full context of such a statement. When we do that, we see that "Allah forgives all sins" is immediately followed by another sentence which tells us to turn to our Lord in repentance "before the Penalty comes on you; after that you shall not be helped." And the penalty refers to the time of trials and punishments after death. So the Quran, in this particular verse, ties forgiveness of all sins with repentance (before death) by mentioning the two of them one after another as in the following:

"O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Turn to your Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you: after that you shall not be helped. And follow the best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the Penalty comes on you - of a sudden while you perceive not!" (Surah 39, Verses 53-55).

And when Allah says, "Allah forgives not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgives whom He pleases other sins than this" (Surah 4:116), that is not a contradiction because that just means that the sin of shirk will not be forgiven unless we sincerely repent for that particular sin before we die (per Surah 39:54), but every other sin may be forgiven depending on Allah's will.

Furthermore, the entire surah itself was being addressed mainly to the Quraish, who did believe in Allah but they believed in other gods as well (which is shirk), so they were not Muslims. The surah is offering a hope to those groups by telling them that your shirk will be forgiven if and only if you repent before death overtakes you, before the penalty comes to you. So there is still a chance for forgiveness.

The entire Surah is a most eloquent and effective address which was given some time before the emigration to Habash, in an environment filled with tyranny and persecution, ill-will and antagonism, at Makkah. It is a sermon whose addressees mainly are the unbelieving Quraish, although here and there the believers also have been addressed. In it the real aim of the invitation of Muhammad (upon whom be Allah's peace and blessings) had been enunciated, which is this: Man should adopt Allah's servitude sincerely, and should not pollute his God worship with the service of any other.

http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=39


So, basically:

Without repentance, Allah may forgive whatever sins that He wishes, but He does not forgive shirk. But with repentance, He forgives all sins including shirk.

It's not that difficult to understand.

So if he does forgive shirk with repentance why does it say does the quran say

Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him;

That's the whole point of the contradiction.
If I say to someone

If you call me big nose I will not pay that money to you. This is because I'm very offended by being called big nose so just don't do it. I will pay that money to you if you call me big nose then you're sincerely sorry about it.

That's what a contradiction is. If he doesn't forgive it in one sentence with no additional conditions attached but then attaches a condition in a different sentence these are two contradictory pieces of information.