Zeus apologetics

[Brian37]

I am creating this thread to demonstrate the fallacy of apologetic argument, so what we can do here is take common arguments that we see by apologists all the time that prove "god" and switch Yahweh with Zeus and demonstrate they still make the same amount of sense.

I'll start, Because if you study a well made banana you will see it has clearly been designed by almighty Zeus."

No it was not, bananas were created by Ray Comfort.

[Walking Void]

" One day, Moses was taking care of the sheep and goats of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian, and Moses decided to lead them across the desert to Sinai, [a] the holy mountain. 2 There a messenger of Zeus appeared to him from a burning bush. Moses saw that the bush was on fire, but it was not burning up. 3 “This is strange!” he said to himself. “I’ll go over and see why the bush isn’t burning up.”

4 When Zeus saw Moses coming near the bush, he called him by name, and Moses answered, “Here I am.”

5 Zeus replied, “Don’t come any closer. Take off your sandals—the ground where you are standing is holy. 6 I am the god who was worshiped by your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Moses was afraid to look at Zeus, and so he hid his face.

7 Zeus said:

I have seen how my people are suffering as slaves in Egypt, and I have heard them beg for my help because of the way they are being mistreated. I feel sorry for them, 8 and I have come down to rescue them from the Egyptians.

I will bring my people out of Egypt into a country where there is good land, rich with milk and honey. I will give them the land where the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites now live. 9 My people have begged for my help, and I have seen how cruel the Egyptians are to them. 10 Now go to the king! I am sending you to lead my people out of his country.

11 But Moses said, “Who am I to go to the king and lead your people out of Egypt?”

12 Zeus replied, “I will be with you. And you will know that I am the one who sent you, when you worship me on this mountain after you have led my people out of Egypt.” [b]

13 Moses answered, “I will tell the people of Israel that the god their ancestors worshiped has sent me to them. But what should I say, if they ask me your name?”

14-15 Zeus said to Moses:

I am the eternal Zeus. So tell them that the god, [c] whose name is “Zeus,” has sent you. This is my name forever, and it is the name that people must use from now on.

16 Call together the leaders of Israel and tell them that the god who was worshiped by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has appeared to you. Tell them I have seen how terribly they are being treated in Egypt, 17 and I promise to lead them out of their troubles. I will give them a land rich with milk and honey, where the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites now live.

18 The leaders of Israel will listen to you. Then you must take them to the king of Egypt and say, “The god of the Hebrews and Grecians has appeared to us. Let us walk three days into the desert, where we can offer a sacrifice to him.” 19 But I know that the king of Egypt won’t let you go unless something forces him to. 20 So I will use my mighty power to perform all kinds of miracles and strike down the Egyptians. Then the king will send you away.

21 After I punish the Egyptians, they will be so afraid of you that they will give you anything you want. You are my people, and I will let you take many things with you when you leave the land of Egypt. 22 Every Israelite woman will go to her Egyptian neighbors or to any Egyptian woman living in her house. She will ask them for gold and silver jewelry and for their finest clothes. The Egyptians will give them to you, and you will put these fine things on your sons and daughters. You will carry all this away when you leave Egypt."

[Raven]

Chuck wrote:

I would be proud to be zeus, but I would kill myself out of sheer mortification were I to find myself Jesus.

Wouldn't do you any good, you'd be back in three days.

[T.J.]

You can tell by the angle of the lighting bolt that falls to the ground that it was thrown.

[DeistPaladin]

The Moral Argument
Without Zeus, we have no objective basis for morality (bare assertion). Morality becomes simply a matter of personal opinions and desires (bare assertion). However, objective morals do exist (bare assertion). Therefore, Zeus exists (conclusion based on contrived definitions and bare assertions).

...and this argument doesn't apply to any other religion (special pleading).

The Transcendental Argument
The use of logic, science and morals presuppose a Olympian worldview (bare assertion). Without Zeus, we couldn't have logic, science or morals (bare assertion). In fact, without Zeus, we couldn't know anything (bare assertion and overlook internal contradiction of how we know Zeus exists in order to know anything else). But we do have knowledge and therefore Zeus exists (begging the question).

...and this argument doesn't apply to any other religion (special pleading).

The Ontological Argument
No greater being than Zeus can exist (now that Kronos is dead and consigned to Tartarus) (bare assertion). Our ideas of Zeus exist in our minds. A Zeus that actually exists is greater than one that doesn't exist. Therefore, Zeus exists (non sequitur).

...and this argument doesn't apply to any other religion (special pleading).

The Presuppositional Argument, Classical
To debate with an aolympist (one who doesn't believe in the Olympian gods) is to consider that Zeus does not exist. I can't conceive that Zeus does not exist (argument from incredulity). Therefore, Zeus exists.

The Presuppostional Argument, Modern
Without Zeus, we can't know anything (see Transcendental Argument above). I can account for why we have morals or use logic but you can't (the ZeusWillsIt or ZeusDidIt argument). Therefore, since you don't know and I do, Zeus exists.

Or "neyth neyth, you don't know everything, therefore Zeus". (I think just about every logical fallacy is hit by this one).

...and this argument doesn't apply to any other religion (special pleading).

The Teleological Argument
Such a universe couldn't have happened by chance (argument from incredulity). Therefore, ZeusDidIt (false dilemma as there are other possibilities). Also see argument from ignorance, ie "we don't know what created the universe so we can't prove it wasn't Zeus".

...and this argument doesn't apply to any other religion (special pleading).

Appeal to Historical References
The Iliad says Zeus exists. The Iliad depicts the Trojan War. We know the Trojan War happened. Therefore, the Iliad is a historical document. Therefore, Zeus exists. (many logical fallacies on this one)

Appeal to Personal Testimony
I feel Zeus' love when I pray. Therefore Zeus exists.

Argument from Antiquity
Our civilization has long believed in Zeus. Therefore, Zeus exists.

Appeal to Popularity
So many people believe in Zeus. Could they all be wrong?

Quintisential Apologetic Argument
1. W4elkrun wlqkjdif iiwngtovh lqueln waliurtni.ausalasdhnrt (banged on the keyboard randomly)
2. No one can disprove the above
3. Therefore Zeus exists.

Poisoning the Well
Charles Darwin was a racist (not really but that's often the charge). Therefore, evolution is racist. Therefore, we were created by Zeus.

Appeal to Consequences
If Zeus doesn't exist, there's no meaning in life (non sequitur). I don't want to believe there's no meaning in life. Therefore, Zeus exists.

This argument can also be used replacing "meaning in life" with "morality".

Assertions About Other's Motives
You just don't want to believe in Zeus because... (pick one)
1. You don't want to be held accountable for your actions
2. You were hurt by someone who was an Olympian (believer in Zeus) and blame Zeus for it
3. You are angry with Zeus because of something that happened in your life and blame Zeus for it
...and I'm not asking you what you really believe or what your real motives are. Lalalalalala.

The Iliad and Odyssey Say So
Only Zeus had contact with mortals and interacted with them, according to the Iliad (spurious assumption that the Iliad is true). Therefore Zeus is real and the other gods aren't (special pleading as other religions have scriptures too).

[Anomalocaris]

Is the fact that I would like to be Zeus enough to prove that Zeus is not only the sole philosophical source of all power and coolness, but also exists to boot?

---

Chuck wrote:

I would be proud to be zeus, but I would kill myself out of sheer mortification were I to find myself Jesus.

Wouldn't do you any good, you'd be back in three days.

You took no account of my omnipotence. If I was Jesus I would use it to do real good by keeping myself dead forever.

[Doubting Thomas]

You are all just angry at Zeus and rebelling against him, probably because something bad happened to you when you were a child.

[MindForgedManacle]

Damn you DeistPaladin. And here I thought I was a little clever with my "Prime Base argument" for the existence of Gaea. :p

[DeistPaladin]

You are all just angry at Zeus and rebelling against him, probably because something bad happened to you when you were a child.

...or because we're "too proud" to serve something larger than ourselves.

We're the arrogant ones because we don't think the whole universe was created with us in mind and the creator of it all wants a personal relationship with us. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Doubting Thomas]

You just don't want to worship Zeus and want to worship yourselves.