Atheist "Church"

[TheBeardedDude]

Firstly, I apologize if there is already a thread on this.

Secondly, I keep seeing articles about these Atheist "Mega-churches" everywhere, and I don't know what I think about them.

On the one hand, I understand why some people want them for the community. I do miss that aspect of church in a way, it is a great way to congregate with local members of your community and discuss things important and relevant to you.

But on the other hand, this seems rather contradictory for me. I could understand a secular book club better or perhaps a secular community that has a weekly gathering over lunch or something. But this movement seems to embrace the "churchy" aspect of it, and I find that rather hypocritical in a sense (at least if I were to participate in it I would see it that way).

For instance, Jerry DeWitt (whom I respect) has helped to start one too. I heard a podcast interview with him where he repeated (over and over and over) the fact that he isn't taking a salary from it and that it isn't about making money like a church does. I got rather annoyed by that because it was a fairly shameless plug to get people to buy his book as a way of supporting him. (Don't get me wrong, I wish the man well and hope his book does well, but this seems far to evangelical to me).

Thoughts?

[Brian37]

I hate the use of the word "church" being used as construct to for meeting like minded people. Atheism is not a "code" of conduct, it is merely the "off" position on one claim.

Humans can set up "guidelines" in mutual consent. But ridged constructed language like "church" and "code" is not something I think atheists should use to compete with religion, otherwise we risk becoming a religion ourselves.

We have clubs and conventions already and we do not need to mimic the tactics of religion to compete with it.

[TheBeardedDude]

The problem is that they are using these gatherings to talk about some set of worldly guidelines. So saying "church" kind of fits.

[freedomfromforum]

This is an extremely bad idea. Once an internal/leadership power struggle ensues it will become identical to religion.

[TheBeardedDude]

This is an extremely bad idea. Once an internal/leadership power struggle ensures it will become identical to religion.

I think this is kind of already happening. Not necessarily with the churches themselves, but within the atheist community. It is quite frustrating and I don't know if this helps at all.

[Doubting Thomas]

It's already hard enough to convince Christians that atheism isn't a religion. When they see this they will just believe it even harder.

[TheBeardedDude]

It's already hard enough to convince Christians that atheism isn't a religion. When they see this they will just believe it even harder.

I am less concerned about the perception of it from the theist community than from within the atheist community (communities?). The theists will continue to defame us no matter what, this doesn't help but neither do their attempts to say that "it isn't a religion, it's a relationship."

[Brian37]

The problem is that they are using these gatherings to talk about some set of worldly guidelines. So saying "church" kind of fits.

No it does not. "Atheism" is a position, not a worldview. Just like off is not a TV channel. It should not be treated as a worldview precisely because we are as diverse in politics and economics as any other label.

I am fine with calling a club a club and a convention a convention, I am not fine with "atheist" being treated like a worldview.

I do not agree with liberal atheists on all issues, being a liberal myself. I also don't agree with Ayn Rand libertarian type atheists either. The only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

Again, we can have a movement without using antiquated bullshit tactics that do nothing but create a "faith", which is what the world needs less of, not more.

[TheBeardedDude]

The problem is that they are using these gatherings to talk about some set of worldly guidelines. So saying "church" kind of fits.

No it does not. "Atheism" is a position, not a worldview. Just like off is not a TV channel. It should not be treated as a worldview precisely because we are as diverse in politics and economics as any other label.

I am fine with calling a club a club and a convention a convention, I am not fine with "atheist" being treated like a worldview.

I do not agree with liberal atheists on all issues, being a liberal myself. I also don't agree with Ayn Rand libertarian type atheists either. The only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

Again, we can have a movement without using antiquated bullshit tactics that do nothing but create a "faith", which is what the world needs less of, not more.

I don't disagree, but these atheist "churches" seem to be a spin on the Christian version in a sense. Instead of worshipping a god and what it supposedly says about morality and how to live your life, they are worshipping reality and preaching about morality and how to live your life.

The issue I have is if this is an outlet for discussion, or if people are just seeking a sheep herder to follow?

[Brian37]

No it does not. "Atheism" is a position, not a worldview. Just like off is not a TV channel. It should not be treated as a worldview precisely because we are as diverse in politics and economics as any other label.

I am fine with calling a club a club and a convention a convention, I am not fine with "atheist" being treated like a worldview.

I do not agree with liberal atheists on all issues, being a liberal myself. I also don't agree with Ayn Rand libertarian type atheists either. The only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

Again, we can have a movement without using antiquated bullshit tactics that do nothing but create a "faith", which is what the world needs less of, not more.

I don't disagree, but these atheist "churches" seem to be a spin on the Christian version in a sense. Instead of worshipping a god and what it supposedly says about morality and how to live your life, they are worshipping reality and preaching about morality and how to live your life.

The issue I have is if this is an outlet for discussion, or if people are just seeking a sheep herder to follow?

Still bullshit. 'Worship" is a superstitious word rooted in crutch thinking. Atheists have NOTHING to worship and everything to question, including each other.

Having a sense of awe, does not mean you worship that sense of awe. If there is nothing to worship, which there is not, then we should not mimic the bullshit that religion is.