This is why I hate people who hate "fucking christians"

[Mister Agenda]

...Maybe it would help you if I gave you some slippery slope pitfalls that the theists have and maybe you can find an atheist counterpart.

1. Violence against heretics

The way humans resort to violence to resolve conflict is instinctive and anthropological. It’s embedded in our selfish DNA. On naturalism/Darwinism, it’s quite normal.
So your beef isn’t against theism, it’s against human nature.

I'll bite. Before you can have religoius heresy, you first have to have religious dogma. Without religion you would still have violence...but not violence against heretics.

If you say (my) religion is false, abnormal, irrational, etc. that may be because the notion of unselfishly loving your enemy goes against your basic human nature – being told why and how to change that deepest ugly instinct bothers a lot of people.

If it was common for members of your religion to show that they're able to love their enemies, it would be impressive. It's the hypocrisy of simultaneously failing to meet that standard and bragging about having it that grates.

2. child abuse by circumcision, male and female

You rail against circumcision of infants but abortion of unborn babies doesn’t get a mention. Yeah. I’ve seen that double-standard a LOT.

For it to be a double standard, the same reasoning would have to apply in both cases. The reasoning against both is various, but since one of the main arguments against legally preventing abortion is that the unborn's rights don't trump the mother's, it's not a double-standard, regardless of whether abortion is ethical or not.

3. Endangering people through the handling of poisonous snakes in rituals.

If people want to handle snakes to get a religious “high” that bothers you but you don’t see the anti-religion whiners saying that drugs should be banned.

It's unlikey if someone drops a reefer that it will crawl into, say, a baby's blankets.

4. Ritualistic human sacrifice

Is there any modern day equivalent of human sacrifice? Yep. YOU BET!
We sacrifice human babies by the thousands every year just so we can continue to worship the gods of sexual hedonism and mammon/wealth.

Rather than going in depth, I'll just point out that abortion isn't ritualistic, and therefore this comment fails to actually attempt to be a rebuttal...but if it were, it would be 'tu quoque'.

5. Inhuman cruelty to prisoners

Yeah, I know right! It’s horrible how they treat them like common criminals - murderers and robbers and rapists.

Jesus had compassion for prisoners.

6. Hanging gays

The Old Testament doesn’t condemn people for being “gay” it condemns sex outside marriage and two men can’t be ‘married’
Interestingly, there arent any examples in the bible of gay people being subject to Mosaic Law capital punishment. Tough penalties probably provided sufficient deterrence.

That's why no one commits crimes that have the death penalty attached...oh, wait, they do. There's no reason to think that executions weren't carried out according to the law because no one broke the law. It would be more reasonable to supposte they WERE carried out and not recorded, or that they weren't carried out because weren't such big fans of the death penalty as the Bible makes them out to be. How many of ANY executions are described in the Bible?

7. burning witches

Hansel and Gretel were kidnapped by a witch – a proper evil witch, not a fake, incense and quartz crystals pretender. In that story, the witch was planning to murder and cannibalize innocent children. Wouldn’t YOU kill such a criminal to prevent such a horrific crime?

Are you toking or do you actually expect us to treat you bringing up a fairy tale as a counter to the point?

Funny how many ppl are opposed to capital punishment shown in the bible, but hold a double-standard when it comes to killing Usama bin Laden or dropping atom bombs on Japanese cities.

Anyone in particular in mind? Osama bin Laden should have been brought to justice and to trial, no matter how inconvenient it was. An uninhabited island should have been nuked as our demonstration of the power of the weapon before it was used on a city.

8. burning jews alive for host nailing desecrations

Disgusting. Where is that in the bible?

The points were about what theists have done, not what's in the Bible.

9. Stymieing science that does not support creationism

What? Science doesn’t need to be “stymied”. Science has done more to validate theistic cosmology than it has to invalidate anything biblical.

The fact that you can say that with a straight face is evidence of the damage creationism has done regarding science.

What I find bizarre is the way people who are supposedly open-minded and willing to consider all theories as tentative, fight tooth and nail to stop schools discussing the probability of intentional design/teleology. Why the censorship of ideas?

Why do you want to use science classes to teach your ideas to other people's children without getting them established as science first? Answer: children are impressionable, science journals are tough.

10. Prohibiting helpful medical procedures.
Whats the issue here? Are “helpful” medical procedures going to become mandatory?

The issue is that helpful medical procedures shouldn't be prohibited. It has nothing to do with making them mandatory, which is an ENTIRELY separate issue.

[freedomfromforum]

And seriously, you see me witnessing here?!

As clearly as I can see the day, yes, I see you witnessing here.

ETA: And while I'm hopeful that you are sincere, I suspect your
veneer is wearing thin, if it is genuine at all (Christians taught me this.)

[Jacob(smooth)]

And seriously, you see me witnessing here?!

As clearly as I can see the day, yes, I see you witnessing here.

ETA: And while I'm hopeful that you are sincere, I suspect your
veneer is wearing thin, if it is genuine at all (Christians taught me this.)

Shit. Not my intention.

How does one answer questions with out giving the appearance of witnessing then?

Anyway its night time here.

[Mister Agenda]

Actually, you're doing the best job of witnessing of any of our current Christians.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Actually, you're doing the best job of witnessing of any of our current Christians.

ARSE!!!

[freedomfromforum]

How does one answer questions with out giving the appearance of witnessing then?

You are giving no appearance - you simply, are. When you speak from any position at all, you are a 'witness' to that position.

---

Actually, you're doing the best job of witnessing of any of our current Christians.

A bad soup with more seasoning.

[Brakeman]

Here ya go Brakeman, since you squibbed it when I challenged you on the 10 points WHICH YOU BROUGHT INTO the thread, let’s see if we can get things back “on topic” …err, I mean,
back onto something you are willing to discuss.

What do you think of the logic here;

The line between good people and bad people (if you want to generalise,) is drawn squarely down the middle of both groups.

Squarely down the middle? Equal in numbers? Are there bad ‘good’ people and good ‘bad’ people? What about the sub-groups?

If you had been able to read the post with adequate comprehension, you would have seen that the ten items were examples of possible pitfalls on the theistic side that must logically have a similar mirrored atheistic pitfall if the premise of Deidre's and Jacob's claim of similar slippery slope pitfalls were true. It was not an attempt nor an invitation to bring 10 new completely unrelated topics into the discussion. A careful read shows that clearly.
I invited you to start a new thread on those topics if you wished, but instead of doing so, you simply make empty postures.

As for Jacob's "we're all equally bad" claim, I don't think it's true, useful, or applicable to the issue. I don't think it's true because atheists are, on the whole, non-violent. I don't think it's useful, because that statement claims that atheists and theists are on the same level, thus there is no slope to be slippery on. I don't think it is applicable to the discussion because the behavior of the general population, of which is made up of theists and atheists, has the same level of vice, but the point of discussion was not the messengers, but the message, that the pushing of reason and logic against religious superstition has no negative side effects that might cause one to "slip" into a pitfall.

After this discussion I should get a medal for nailing Jello.

[freedomfromforum]

I don't think it's true because atheists are, on the whole, non-violent..

If you could readily replace the word 'atheists' here with 'humans' then I'd be more inclined to give greater weight to your entire post. Because you honestly cannot, I cannot honestly agree with you entirely. Human is human, and we are more alike than dissimilar.

[*Deidre*]

I stand grateful for your spoonfeeding. Diedre badger and I are clearly mistaken and there is no danger that atheists could exhibit any of the nastier aspects of religion when gathered in groups. Atheists in a group never exhibit the same circlejerking tendencies as Christians. Thanks for reassuring me. You're all cool.

Also, Diedre, shame on you for thinking that Brakeman has a condescending or self righteous tone . Absolutely no traces of that which I can detect!

Yes, the berating is so subtle!
Are you a Christian, Jacob? I once was, for years.

[Minimalist]

How does one answer questions with out giving the appearance of witnessing then?

Throw in a couple of "fuck jesuses." That should cover it.