Posts: 111
Threads: 2
Joined: April 12, 2009
Reputation:
4
RE: COLLISION: Hitchens vs. Wilson
November 14, 2009 at 7:46 pm
He's clearly not a nutjob as the film will testify. He comes across as a decent bloke.
I've just watched the film this evening, and re-read the above quote from one of his books (to try to "hear the tone" a bit better); but still have no idea what he's getting at.
I await Arcanus's reply.
Posts: 111
Threads: 2
Joined: April 12, 2009
Reputation:
4
RE: COLLISION: Hitchens vs. Wilson
November 14, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Not that I advocate downloading illegal content in any manner, but 'piratebay' may be able to help you....
Posts: 111
Threads: 2
Joined: April 12, 2009
Reputation:
4
RE: COLLISION: Hitchens vs. Wilson
November 14, 2009 at 7:56 pm
<rubs hands together Mr Burns-style>
Eeeeexcellent.
Posts: 111
Threads: 2
Joined: April 12, 2009
Reputation:
4
RE: COLLISION: Hitchens vs. Wilson
November 21, 2009 at 8:55 pm
While waiting for Arcanus' response to the earlier Wilson quote, I thought I'd offer some thoughts on Wilson's main objection in the film; namely that although Hitchens can determine right and wrong, he can offer no explanation as to where it comes from.
I think that morality has been partially explanied by Darwinian methods. The theories and experiments on altruism have been well documented, and this is a good beginning for the basis of morality. However I think that the often overlooked element is that of language.
Once language evolved within early humans, there developed the extraordinary ability to "think in words". The ability to 'think in words' allows people to contemplate one's past and one's future, rather than being forever locked within the present moment. This in turn allows people to think outside of their own physical being, both temporally and physically. The upshot of which is that the earliest human beings could 'put themselves' in the place of others. Imagagining what it is lilke, to be in "someone elses shoes".
Consequently they could imagine what it would be like to suffer pain at anothers hand, to suffer embarassment through one's own actions and so on... At this point people could begin thinking "What happened to him is terrible, I'd hate the same to happen to me"/"How he treated her was terrible, I'd hate someone to treat me like that".
This being the beginning of empathy. Once these functions are in place, it is not a stretch of the imagination to propose societies starting to encourage such empathetic behaviours, and these behaviours then being both naturally selected, but also intellectually contemplated.
Just some thoughts?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posts: 4535
Threads: 175
Joined: August 10, 2009
Reputation:
43
RE: COLLISION: Hitchens vs. Wilson
November 22, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Morality is rooted in survival and is a trait that all species have in some form. From the very first organism on earth through to our present day complexity, the need to survive is the primary function of all life.
Moralities first real wave came with the first social animals, survival became about more than looking after your own back, safety in numbers was discovered and found to be so obvious and effective that it required a new priority, look after yourself first and foremost - but keep your kind on good terms in case you need them.
That morality grew, most likely because of the way the brain works, more specifically how memory works. Survival is the innate instinct, society is the way to survive and pleasure is associated with success. Pleasure is a drug all life craves, and if ones primary criteria of pleasure or happiness is survival, then everything that ensures survival will be inevitably associated with happiness and pleasure in the mind. This means over time the society will become inevitably linked to the pleasure of successfully surviving, leading to solidarity and sociality them selves becoming things associated with happiness.
It all leads from there, a gradual network of associations stemming from survival.
.
Posts: 2241
Threads: 94
Joined: December 4, 2008
Reputation:
24
RE: COLLISION: Hitchens vs. Wilson
November 23, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I'm guessing ol' Arcanus has decided his vastly superior intellect is wasted on such depraved intellectually inept folks as ourselves.
I used to tell a lot of religious jokes. Not any more, I'm a registered sects offender.
---------------
...the least christian thing a person can do is to become a christian. ~Chuck
---------------
NO MA'AM
Posts: 4807
Threads: 291
Joined: October 29, 2008
Reputation:
35
RE: COLLISION: Hitchens vs. Wilson
November 23, 2009 at 3:08 pm
We all know that Arcanus leaves the forum now and again for a few weeks due to his job(s).
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you