The Myth of the Moderate Muslim?

[JesusHChrist]

A recently published study collects empirical data on the attitudes of Muslims in Western Europe and it turns out, they ain't so moderate after all.

http://www.wzb.eu/sites/default/files/u6...sch_ed.pdf

The WZB-funded Six Country Immigrant Integration Comparative Survey (SCIICS) among immigrants and natives in Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria and Sweden provides for the first time a solid empirical basis for these debates. The survey with a total sample size of 9,000 respondents was conducted in 2008 among persons with a Turkish or Moroccan immigration background, as well as a native comparison group. Following the widely accepted definition of fundamentalism of Bob Altermeyer and Bruce Hunsberger, the fundamentalism belief system is defined by three key elements:

- that believers should return to the eternal and unchangeable rules laid down in the past;
- that these rules allow only one interpretation and are binding for all believers;
- that religious rules have priority over secular laws.

and the summary:

These findings clearly contradict the often-heard claim that Islamic religious fundamentalism is a marginal phenomenon in Western Europe or that it does not differ from the extent of fundamentalism among the Christian majority. Both claims are blatantly false, as almost half of European Muslims agree that Muslims should return to the roots of Islam, that there is only one interpretation of the Koran, and that the rules laid down in it are more important than secular laws. Among native Christians, less than one in 25 can be characterized as fundamentalists in this sense. Religious fundamentalism is moreover not an innocent form of strict religiosity, as its strong relationship – among both Christians and Muslims – to hostility towards out-groups demonstrates.

[Minimalist]

that there is only one interpretation of the Koran

Yes...the one that their sect follows and they will joyfully kill all the other heretics because fucking allah approves.

[EgoRaptor]

This isn't surprising.

[Brian37]

Moderate Muslims do exist, Congressmen Kieth Ellison is Muslim and I doubt he ever or would ever support barbaric acts such as shooting girls for wanting an education, nor would Malala the Muslim girl who was shot.

Now what can be said about all religions is that moderates, moreso in the east because their governments hold them hostage, but all moderates and liberals lend aid to these actions cropping up. It is unfortunately also the west's well intended idea of pluralism and political correctness, in combo with the fascism of the east.

The only difference between the west and the east is that the west has had 200 years of secular government as a leash on religion. But the underpinnings that allow barbarity also exist in Christianty. The dark ages, slavery, sexism, homophobia, even with secularism still had to drag Christianity kicking and screaming into the future. There are still to this day Christian attempts to turn back the clock on women's rights, voting rights, and most states still ban gay marriage.

I'd read Sam Harris's "The End Of Faith" noo understand what drives a person to do horrible things in the name of a god. But this isn't strictly Islam.

[JesusHChrist]

Moderate Muslims do exist, Congressmen Kieth Ellison is Muslim and I doubt he ever or would ever support barbaric acts such as shooting girls for wanting an education, nor would Malala the Muslim girl who was shot.

Agree moderate Muslims do exist, but the core of this study is to quantify just how many fundy Muslims there are: around 50% of those surveyed, a rather large chunk of the survey group.

The point is Muslim fundamentalism isn't "rare", it is close to the norm. Another disturbing finding from the study was how many young Muslim people held fundamentalist beliefs. The number was quite high (don't have it open any more).

[Lemonvariable72]

Holyfuckingshitlickedbymohummed this actually could be a huge problem




LOL hug problem, I fucking wish

[pineapplebunnybounce]

I am not at all surprised.

Why is anyone?

Because of the increase in Islam discussions around this forum recently, I'm starting to get the idea that you guys believe moderate muslims to act like moderate christians, who actually borders on cultural christians. My idea of moderate muslims still adhere strongly to the qur'an or their interpretation of the qur'an, it's cultural muslims who do not adhere that closely (maybe they believe gay isn't a sin) but still follow the rituals. Moderate ones do not break the law for religious reasons, fundamentalists/extremists do. In other words, my idea of moderate muslims (who are the majority in the muslims I know) are equivalent to your idea of a bible thumper but not the crazy christian who tried to kill abortion doctors. Cultural muslims are rather rare in comparison, but are growing in secular countries as they get more affected by secular ideologies.

[Lemonvariable72]

I am not at all surprised.

Why is anyone?

Because of the increase in Islam discussions around this forum recently, I'm starting to get the idea that you guys believe moderate muslims to act like moderate christians, who actually borders on cultural christians. My idea of moderate muslims still adhere strongly to the qur'an or their interpretation of the qur'an, it's cultural muslims who do not adhere that closely (maybe they believe gay isn't a sin) but still follow the rituals. Moderate ones do not break the law for religious reasons, fundamentalists/extremists do. In other words, my idea of moderate muslims (who are the majority in the muslims I know) are equivalent to your idea of a bible thumper but not the crazy christian who tried to kill abortion doctors. Cultural muslims are rather rare in comparison, but are growing in secular countries as they get more affected by secular ideologies.

I suppose your right. And here I was trying to have a little faith in humanity. Thats out again.

[Brian37]

Moderate Muslims do exist, Congressmen Kieth Ellison is Muslim and I doubt he ever or would ever support barbaric acts such as shooting girls for wanting an education, nor would Malala the Muslim girl who was shot.

Agree moderate Muslims do exist, but the core of this study is to quantify just how many fundy Muslims there are: around 50% of those surveyed, a rather large chunk of the survey group.

The point is Muslim fundamentalism isn't "rare", it is close to the norm. Another disturbing finding from the study was how many young Muslim people held fundamentalist beliefs. The number was quite high (don't have it open any more).

Hold on now. What you seem to miss although rightfully going after religion is context of TIME which is distracting you from the core of all religion which is that all holy books are weapons.

If you stripped America of the Constitution it would not take but a couple generations if not less for it to regress back into the same barbarity. All you have to do to know this is to look at the religious fighting in Africa which included barbarity by Christians, not just Muslims.

Christianity in the west is civil in spite of religion, not because of it.

[Lemonvariable72]

Agree moderate Muslims do exist, but the core of this study is to quantify just how many fundy Muslims there are: around 50% of those surveyed, a rather large chunk of the survey group.

The point is Muslim fundamentalism isn't "rare", it is close to the norm. Another disturbing finding from the study was how many young Muslim people held fundamentalist beliefs. The number was quite high (don't have it open any more).

Hold on now. What you seem to miss although rightfully going after religion is context of TIME which is distracting you from the core of all religion which is that all holy books are weapons.

If you stripped America of the Constitution it would not take but a couple generations if not less for it to regress back into the same barbarity. All you have to do to know this is to look at the religious fighting in Africa which included barbarity by Christians, not just Muslims.

Christianity in the west is civil in spite of religion, not because of it.

Sort of, you see Islam has many aspects that make that separate of church and state much harder to obtain. Islam is a political systen