"The United States is a Christian-founded nation"

[DeistPaladin]

At least not at the Federal level. It was a different story at the State and local levels though. Some States Constitutions went so far as to require that candidates seeking political office had to believe in God and be a Protestant Christian. Like these for example...

They're null and void, in violation of the Federal Constitution, which by virtue of the 14th amendment, the states are not allowed to do.

[Sword of Christ]

Separation of Church and State? Do you mean the same Church that Jesus didn't care to create because he told his disciples to expect the world to end and the coming of God's Kingdom within their own lifetimes?

And they did see the coming of Gods Kingdom within their own lifetimes it began with the Resurrection, the experience of Christ after his death that people at the time did in fact have we know this much. Saint Paul had such an experience himself it's all right there.

[Minimalist]

it began with the Resurrection

Evidence....or are you just running your fucking mouth again?

[Sword of Christ]

Evidence....or are you just running your fucking mouth again?

Evidence that people had an experience with the full glory of the risen Christ? We have evidence of that certainly, I can point you towards the text. It doesn't prove they didn't have a collective mass hallucination or something but I don't know how you would prove something like that. All the people involved are dead at this point as well so that would hinder that line inquiry but we have what the wrote. Here you go.

[Chad32]

The bible is a claim. Not evidence. If we had other books by other people that there was a solar eclipse after killing three guys one day, and dead people rising from graves, and 500 witnesses to his return, that would lend credit that one of those criminals was the messiah. Yet no one did. The first to write about it was Paul, 10+ years after the event, who claimed to hear a spirit that his companions around him didn't.

If you're going to point to one book, I can point to other books about creator gods and messiahs that were born of virgins, became wandering preachers in their thirties, and rose from the dead ten days after they were killed. Hinduism comes to mind as an active religion today. Shall I begin worshiping Mithras now?

[Minimalist]

We know that your bible is a compilation of heavily-edited texts which suited the needs of the ruling elite. Until you can provide evidence that the claims contained therein are more than the simple delusions of ignorant primitives or the manipulative writings of crooked priests your bible is not "evidence" as such.

Do you understand the difference?

[Sword of Christ]

The bible is a claim. Not evidence.

The claim is that some people historically had an experience of some kind of experience with someone and something they took to be God. Whether they actually did or not is another question, we don't and can't know this. This whole concept of having to accept a purely material explanation unless proven beyond any doubt that no such explanation is possible isn't some kind of law we all have to adhere to that's just your own opinion of what you should believe. Particularly not if there are good arguments in favour of Gods existence to begin with.

If we had other books by other people that there was a solar eclipse after killing three guys one day, and dead people rising from graves, and 500 witnesses to his return, that would lend credit that one of those criminals was the messiah.

He could be the anti-Christ or something? I don't know. Ok they may have used some artistic license in the story given that I would suggest more people at the time would have noticed all these things had they happened. The resurrection darkness is generally seen as a literary invention to add weight to the story.

"Modern scholarship, noting the way in which similar accounts were associated in ancient times with the deaths of notable figures, tends to look upon this phenomenon as a literary invention that attempts to convey a sense of the power of Jesus in the face of death, or a sign of God's displeasure with the Jewish people. "

Yet no one did. The first to write about it was Paul, 10+ years after the event, who claimed to hear a spirit that his companions around him didn't.

The story of gospels isn't a 100% word of word historical account of exactly what happened but even people at the time knew this, the four different gospels differ from each other for a start. I'm sure the story is based on someone of the name Yeshua and the outline of the story is generally true as is his teachings and sayings. Supernatural or paranormal powers some kind of healing ability and extra sensory perception are certainly things I believe are possible, science is a little vague on these things. There were many people at the time who practiced these kinds of powers they were ten a penny. As a rule is generally better to be open minded to the possibilities though not gullible as there are a lot of charlatans who make a lot of money claiming to be able to do things they can't. But right the way through human history and into modern times these kinds of things still persist and are even something many people experience at some point in the life so I wouldn't to be too quick to discount it. The best way to tackle it is through a faith in an authentic well attested tradition of faith.

If you're going to point to one book, I can point to other books about creator gods and messiahs that were born of virgins, became wandering preachers in their thirties, and rose from the dead ten days after they were killed.

Certainly there was some universal archetypes and spiritual symbolism people at the time would have been familiar with that was incorporated into the gospel narratives. The Nativity is a pretty regular archetypal hero narrative the historical events wouldn't have been quite the same thing. But emphases that you have an event of great significance that was at the same time humble and completely nondescript just the birth of a low status Galilean man who they had to put in a barn. He was visited by three shepherds three very low class individuals and three Magi/wise-men of great status which gives you the full range of significance to all of humanity there. The business of following the star to Bethlehem could have been an astrological alignment the Zoroastrian Magi being astrologers so they put that into the story for dramatic purposes, also of course these guys weren't Jewish so demonstrating that this wasn't just something that was relevant to the Jews but to the world as a whole.

Hinduism comes to mind as an active religion today.

Hinduism and Christianity have share some points in common and Hindus are generally very open towards Christianity and Jesus.





Some Jesus yoga here. I'm down with the multiplicity of faiths it's all fine with me as I see humanity as sharing a common spiritual root grounded in God.

Shall I begin worshiping Mithras now?

You can if you like though nothing that Christianity doesn't already cover. The Catholic mass may have been derived from Mithraism and the interior design of Western churches are modeled on Mithraian temples there's some interesting shared history of religious development there.

[Dragonetti]

You still have to prove if Jesus even existed.

[Sword of Christ]

You still have to prove if Jesus even existed.

Yes it is possible he didn't physically exist on Earth but was based on some other kind of shared experience of God in form of visions and so on. Here's an interesting book on that possibly. There were Docetist and monophysite Christians who believed that Jesus never had a human Earthly nature at all so that would be a possibility. The encounter with Christ could be something like St Paul's visionary/mystical experience on the road to Damacus when he was temporarily struck blind. There's an interesting book on this written by an atheist/pantheist and former believer.



Personally I think there was an historical Jesus of some kind but I'm open minded to the other possibility as well seeing as I don't think it necessary precludes a genuine revelation from a God who does exist. He could manifest into human history through other means and the shared experience people had will still be a reality. The author of this book didn't seem to consider that possibility he just goes off into a materialist tangent in the second half of the book. The truth of matter is going to be complicated but it will be something surprising to you either way. As long as God exists and the Bible and the gospels are the revelation from God to humanity then perfectly happy about it.

[Dragonetti]

Shared experienced? This is sound like a group of people around a table, and each person is injecting themselves with heroine.