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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 20, 2014 at 8:37 pm
(This post was last modified: January 20, 2014 at 8:38 pm by Mudhammam.)
(January 20, 2014 at 8:31 pm)InevitableCheese Wrote: Quote:The atheist is obligate, by logical implications of naturalistic philosophies, to oppose anything that would allow for the human race to not advance. Gay marriage, free compulsory education, democracy. They would also have to admit the morality of slavery all things considered. What is being said is that Atheists have no reason to suppose that their is a predisposed moral framework and that they could not in any way condemn people for doing what they wished according to their own standpoints. While many people would say that murder is wrong, it is simply practical, murder is wrong because we do not want to get murdered.
Quote:You could potentially say it is wrong for yourself, but that's as far as it can go. An atheist can say, "I don't want to kill people because I don't like the fact that other people have to suffer and die." However, you cannot say that someone else doesn't have the right to kill someone, because you would be developing an objective moral framework without an objective lawgiver.
Quote: where can they draw an objective line and say "this is wrong." You can't, if God is not in the picture.
I'm sure there's a lot of ideas about objective and subjective morality outside of the Bible. Isn't there a whole section of philosophy for the subject?
" I deem murder to be immoral" is no less a conversation-stopper than "God deems murder to be immoral." God is an unnecessary extra step and tantamount to saying, "God says murder is immoral and so murder is immoral because God says it is immoral." Since value judgments regarding the moral nature of God are made by humans, all value judgments are made by humans.
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 20, 2014 at 8:39 pm
Quote:"I deem murder to be immoral" is no less a conversation-stopper than "God deems murder to be immoral." God is an unnecessary extra step and tantamount to saying, "God says murder is immoral and so murder is immoral because God says it is immoral." Since value judgments regarding the moral nature of God are made by humans, all value judgments are made by humans.
Well, of course they don't believe it was made by humans. They believe it was made through man by God. God revealing his character and such.
"The consolations of philosophy and the beauties of science; these things are infinitely more awe-inspiring and regenerating and majestic than any invocation of the burning bush or doctrine." - Christopher Hitchens
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 20, 2014 at 8:41 pm
(January 20, 2014 at 8:31 pm)InevitableCheese Wrote: I'm sure there's a lot of ideas about objective and subjective morality outside of the Bible. Isn't there a whole section of philosophy for the subject?
Yep, it's the field of meta-ethics.
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 20, 2014 at 8:43 pm
(January 20, 2014 at 8:39 pm)InevitableCheese Wrote: Quote:"I deem murder to be immoral" is no less a conversation-stopper than "God deems murder to be immoral." God is an unnecessary extra step and tantamount to saying, "God says murder is immoral and so murder is immoral because God says it is immoral." Since value judgments regarding the moral nature of God are made by humans, all value judgments are made by humans.
Well, of course they don't believe it was made by humans. They believe it was made through man by God. God revealing his character and such.
Well, considering the incompatible morality of presently competing Christianities, present Christianity vs. past Christianity, and of course, the Old vs. New Testaments, it should be pretty clear that God has a communication problem in revealing his moral nature.
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 20, 2014 at 8:46 pm
(January 20, 2014 at 8:43 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: (January 20, 2014 at 8:39 pm)InevitableCheese Wrote: Well, of course they don't believe it was made by humans. They believe it was made through man by God. God revealing his character and such.
Well, considering the incompatible morality of presently competing Christianities, present Christianity vs. past Christianity, and of course, the Old vs. New Testaments, it should be pretty clear that God has a communication problem in revealing his moral nature.
I would assume that the apologetic response to that, assuming they accepted it for the sake of argument, is that what you're saying is an epistemic issue on our part.
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 20, 2014 at 8:47 pm
(January 20, 2014 at 8:46 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: (January 20, 2014 at 8:43 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Well, considering the incompatible morality of presently competing Christianities, present Christianity vs. past Christianity, and of course, the Old vs. New Testaments, it should be pretty clear that God has a communication problem in revealing his moral nature.
I would assume that the apologetic response to that, assuming they accepted it for the sake of argument, is that what you're saying is an epistemic issue on our part.
That's the only issue that really matters.
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 20, 2014 at 9:21 pm
Of course all people aren't equal & to treat them as if they were is stupid. Should Rick Perry be treated equally compared to Christopher Hitchens? I would say no, not even under the law. He should of course be treated fairly, but is it really fair that Einstein & Perry are equal under the law?
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 22, 2014 at 4:37 pm
Anyone else going to respond?
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 22, 2014 at 4:47 pm
Sure, I was just happening by and noticed the lure. 'Equal under the law' means to be treated by the government as if they have the same rights. They absolutely should be treated as equal under the law.
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RE: Atheism Leads to Inequality
January 22, 2014 at 4:50 pm
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2014 at 4:58 pm by EgoRaptor.)
(January 22, 2014 at 4:47 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Sure, I was just happening by and noticed the lure. 'Equal under the law' means to be treated by the government as if they have the same rights. They absolutely should be treated as equal under the law. Why? Should Eisenstein not be given more rights that Perry? In my opinion those with a less than average IQ should be disenfranchised.
There are certain freedoms that all men should enjoy (such as freedom of speech), but other freedom should not be given to lesser men.
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