Spiritual enlightenment

[theVOID]

Spiritual Enlightenment...


It's a concept invented entirely in the minds of weak individuals who were for some reason unsatisfied with the world around them. Rather than search for meaning in the observable reality around us they superimpose hypothetical realms that they have know way of honestly verifying as true. They imagine an attainable level of divinity, of connection to something that they consider meaningful, ultimate and purposeful, but again, they have know way of knowing for sure whether or not they are true. They claim to have surpassed ego, yet they are the first to hold their own position as superior despite their utter dishonesty in claiming that they can know such things with any level of certainty, they are fools hiding behind a fantasy, imaging spiritual energy not unlike certain superpowers dreamed up by children, they cling to their ideas oblivious to the fact that the truth of the matter is something that is external to all Human minds, the fact that just because spiritual enlightenment is their preferred idea does not in any way make it true.

[Purple Rabbit]

Ultimate truth about everything, I would have thought. I think that's what 'enlightenment' is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be all-encompassing, I reckon.

That's not the picture I get from some reading on the subject. If ultimate truth is all truth, ie all facts of the world that can be known, from every detail to the grand schemes of things, it would encompass all knowledge. But that is not what the enlightened seem to mean. They do not claim all-knowing capacities.

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"Spiritual Enlightenment and Spiritual Awakening is the primary goal of almost all spiritual practices, traditions and religions and for any spiritual seeker. There are many names for this awakened state of Consciousness depending on what culture and tradition we belong to."

Your quote seems a religious claim to me and quite contrary to what some allegedly enlightened people say. which is something more like: all religions and all organized worldviews for that matter are bullshit. Mind you, I am a total non-expert on the subject of spiritual enlightenment (as you probably will gladly acknowledge) but this sounds really intriguing to me.

"A higher state of consciousness in which the person seems to transcend his or her ego, and becomes aware of his/her divinity, and that he/she is one with God"

This too is quite the opposite of what I have found. According to the experts a sharp distinction has to be made between finding ultimate truth and some permanent state of cosmic orgasm you seem to describe.

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From the little I've read on the subject, it seems that things start getting "spooky" after periods of fasting. People might experience something, and call it "spiritual enlightenment, but maybe it's just a natural reaction to low sugar levels in the blood.

Again, I think you are talking about the mystical cosmical orgasm New Age variant of enlightenment that seems to be especially engineered to meet Western consumer standards. Real enlightenment is none other than bare truth in which even the self is eradicated. How can you have cosmcal orgasms if you ar not around?

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Spiritual Enlightenment...


It's a concept invented entirely in the minds of weak individuals who were for some reason unsatisfied with the world around them. Rather than search for meaning in the observable reality around us they superimpose hypothetical realms that they have know way of honestly verifying as true. They imagine an attainable level of divinity, of connection to something that they consider meaningful, ultimate and purposeful, but again, they have know way of knowing for sure whether or not they are true. They claim to have surpassed ego, yet they are the first to hold their own position as superior despite their utter dishonesty in claiming that they can know such things with any level of certainty, they are fools hiding behind a fantasy, imaging spiritual energy not unlike certain superpowers dreamed up by children, they cling to their ideas oblivious to the fact that the truth of the matter is something that is external to all Human minds, the fact that just because spiritual enlightenment is their preferred idea does not in any way make it true.

I know very little of spiritual enlightenment but enough to see your judgement is to early. You are referring to New Age type of enlightenment, a consumer product for seekers of cosmic oneness and other highly free floating in mid air concepts.

To tackle claims of spiritual enlightenment of the other kind, the kind claiming to have found ultimate truth, I think we should use rational critrions like: can the claim be verified or falsified.

Anyone?

[Edwardo Piet]

It would have probably made more sense if I said 'ultimate wisdom' rather than 'Truth'.

To be spiritual enlightened is to be fully endowed - or almost fully endowed - with spiritual 'wisdom' I would have thought.

But anyway, I do believe that enlightenment is supposed to be about wisdom... about being ultimately 'wise'...

And also I think about peace... for I think the idea is that where there is ultimate wisdom there is also ultimate peace... so maybe enlightenment is a mixture of the two: Wisdom and peace.

EvF

[Purple Rabbit]

It would have probably made more sense if I said 'ultimate wisdom' rather than 'Truth'.

Yes, I think that's better, intuitively. But as hard it is to define truth, wisdom seems an even bigger problem.

To be spiritual enlightened is to be fully endowed - or almost fully endowed - with spiritual 'wisdom' I would have thought.

Just a little test: was Einstein an enlightened one in your opinion?

[fr0d0]

"Spiritual Enlightenment and Spiritual Awakening is the primary goal of almost all spiritual practices, traditions and religions and for any spiritual seeker. There are many names for this awakened state of Consciousness depending on what culture and tradition we belong to."

Your quote seems a religious claim to me and quite contrary to what some allegedly enlightened people say. which is something more like: all religions and all organized worldviews for that matter are bullshit. Mind you, I am a total non-expert on the subject of spiritual enlightenment (as you probably will gladly acknowledge) but this sounds really intriguing to me.

What makes it bullshit if it's organised? Not that I disagree.. and don't feel an onus upon answering as I quite understand the sentiment.

"A higher state of consciousness in which the person seems to transcend his or her ego, and becomes aware of his/her divinity, and that he/she is one with God"

This too is quite the opposite of what I have found. According to the experts a sharp distinction has to be made between finding ultimate truth and some permanent state of cosmic orgasm you seem to describe.

Hmm ..'transcend' has that suggestion doesn't it. Generally I've got this impression from 'seekers' but I don't think it has to be seen as so beneficial. I think it could be quite the opposite - for instance obtaining the state via some form of self denial.

[Edwardo Piet]

Just a little test: was Einstein an enlightened one in your opinion?

In some ways I think Einstein was... but not in any 'ultimate' way... but I don't believe ultimate enlightenment is possible anyway.

I think Leonardo Da Vinci certainly was (although as I said, not 'ultimately')... especially considering his time.... almost every single one of my favourite inspirational and wise quotations are by him... partly this is just my opinion... but I also think most of us know what a kind of guy he was - at least vaguely

I think Leonardo was more than 'just' a polymath. As well as being a genius on multiple subjects... he also seemed to have a great deal of common sense and wisdom in general, insofar as I can tell. He seemed very all-encompassing indeed, and way way ahead of his time. A true empiricist and seeker of all knowledge.

"The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding" - Leonardo Da Vinci

It would have probably made more sense if I said 'ultimate wisdom' rather than 'Truth'.

I agree that 'wisdom' is even harder to define than 'truth'... but this is why enlightenment is such a difficult subject I think.

Yes, I think that's better, intuitively. But as hard it is to define truth, wisdom seems an even bigger problem.

EvF

[fr0d0]

Why are we discussing 'ultimates' anyway? It's not in the OP.

[Edwardo Piet]

This is an extrapolation from it. We're still on topic. I, for instance, am trying to discuss with PR about what 'Spiritual Enlightenment' perhaps is.

EvF

[fr0d0]

Well 'ultimates' seems to be a pointless diversion (overflowing from another thread). Wisdom and peace are on the button.

IMO

[Edwardo Piet]

Well like I said, I don't believe 'ultimate' is possible... but some believers in 'Spiritual Enlightenment' may nevertheless think it is, just as, at least some, will also believe in the supernatural, I believe.

EvF