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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 11:38 am
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2014 at 11:39 am by Alex K.)
(February 11, 2014 at 10:35 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: You can't really use a Christian who happens to be an asshole (everyone is to some degree) as the template for what Christianity is all about. Use Jesus as the template.
Ok, let's take Jesus as the template....
Jesus Christ Wrote:Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. (Matthew 10)
Erm... Sorry, but I'm already more moral than Jesus, he's just not good enough...
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 11:58 am
(February 11, 2014 at 1:29 am)Boris Karloff Wrote: When he couldn't answer my questions he ended the conversation with "I hope God allows your first child to be miscarried."
(February 11, 2014 at 2:44 am)Boris Karloff Wrote: He said he would kill someone if god told him to.
Take solace that you really struck a nerve with him.
And next time bring some bear-strength pepper spray, you know, just in case his god has given him some marching orders while you weren't around.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 12:11 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 10:35 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: You can't really use a Christian who happens to be an asshole (everyone is to some degree) as the template for what Christianity is all about. Use Jesus as the template.
You have a point about not cherry-picking bad Christians, but a religion IS its followers, what they are, not what their ideal is. What I find about Christians is not that they're particularly bad, but that they're not particularly good.
If you get down to particulars though, it's hard to find better human beings than liberal Quakers. A goodly percentage of American Christians don't even consider them fellow Christians, though.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 12:22 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 1:29 am)Boris Karloff Wrote: When he couldn't answer my questions he ended the conversation with "I hope God allows your first child to be miscarried." It's notable that he didn't think to say "I hope god gives me the answer to your questions." So many Christians seem to expect such strange behavior from god. A person who survives a terrible accident will say "I survived through the will of god." Would've been nice if he'd nudged you out of the path of that runaway truck, but I guess that would not have been strange or mysterious enough.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 12:47 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 2:41 am)Alex K Wrote: I wouldn't have kept my cool. I might even have flattened his nose. So kudos.
Yeah, having lost one that way (well, technically we had an abortion because it was an ectopic pregnancy) I think I might have broken some thing important on the cocksucker. 
God, save us from your worshipers!!
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 1:29 am)Boris Karloff Wrote: When he couldn't answer my questions he ended the conversation with "I hope God allows your first child to be miscarried."
I think I won...
All hearsay, no proof that it happened, and actually a poor little story just so you can look good before those you worship. You couldn't win a debate with one of my youth from church.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 1:41 pm
Quote:All hearsay, no proof that it happened, and actually a poor little story just so you can look good before those you worship. You couldn't win a debate with one of my youth from church.
GC
You claim belong to a church? Sorry, I'm afraid you've offered no proof of that. Its just hearsay 
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 2:07 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 12:11 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: You have a point about not cherry-picking bad Christians, but a religion IS its followers
A religion is the theology and moral teachings people believe/follow. But Christians are still going to be subject to sin ultimately, they do need to be forgiven by God for something otherwise the whole idea would be defeated and Jesus didn't die for any good reason and was wasting his time.
Quote:What I find about Christians is not that they're particularly bad, but that they're not particularly good.
That's because they're subject to sin though by right Christianity ought to make you more aware of your asshole nature and so leading to a lessening of this and self improvement, within a human limitation.
Quote:If you get down to particulars though, it's hard to find better human beings than liberal Quakers. A goodly percentage of American Christians don't even consider them fellow Christians, though.
There are Christians who believe in it and Christians who believe in it and really mean it and put the teachings of Christ into practice.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 2:24 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 10:35 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: You can't really use a Christian who happens to be an asshole (everyone is to some degree) as the template for what Christianity is all about. Use Jesus as the template.
Wait....
Isn't Jesus responsible for the doctrine of infinite punishment for finite crimes?
Not such a good template after all.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
February 11, 2014 at 2:40 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 2:24 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Isn't Jesus responsible for the doctrine of infinite punishment for finite crimes?
That's not actually a doctrine. There may be Christians have entirely the wrong idea but it's worth having a look at what Jesus actually said about Hell.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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