I was just in a debate with a christian

[Minimalist]

Did anyone take up Jesus offer to cast the first stone?

A phony story added to your fucking gospel long after the fact.

You clowns are so easily fooled.

[Drich]

So... No questions?

[Cinjin]

If we want yet another dose of filthy lies, we'll ask you some questions.

[Esquilax]

If we were created instantly as physical immortal gods day one complete with freewill, if that's possible to do, we would probably end like the gods of Olympus at best. We would likely spend much of eternity trying to make existence as unpleasant for each other as possible while vying for domination and power over each other, casting vanquished foes into the depths of the Tartarus and so on. So that isn't an ideal model for eternal life. The sin element has to be factored into the equation if this going to work.

Why do you do that? Why do you always swing to the opposite extreme, rather than just reading what I've said?

God could just have a system where a normal, mortal human could strive and actually succeed in having a sinless life without needing this undefined "salvation," too. Just construct a system where it's possible to win the game without a loophole, that's called fairness, you know?

There is a grand plan where everything will work itself out and we're part of that. We're not playing a game with odds stacked against us we're participants in an eternal dance at the centre of which is a man with holes in his hands and feet. That doesn't deny the suffering and hardship of life seeing as God experienced it himself as one of us.

More flat assertions that fly in the face of the facts.

Seems a bit vacuous, there are people who aren't really enjoy their lives that's little bit a point to make. You go through all this business just to end up in the ground nourishing some fucking tree. Whats it all for? Nothing particularly really.

Oh look, you've moved on to oversimplified strawmen, now! That's... a little better than outright dishonesty, though no more respectful.

You notice how I'm not doing that? I'm not all like "oh, the system you have in place is just "

I don't get it: are you doing this on purpose, or have you just not bothered to actually learn anything about the subject you claim you disagree with?

[Mystical]

It's not a plan just that humans are subject to sin (serious character flaws) and death which can/will result in a separation from God that being the eternal state of Hell. But God offers to give you grace through Christ which wipes your slate 100% clean which results in a decent form of immorality/existence after death. But you have the free choice to reject this and live the life of a complete asshole instead and this continues after physically die seeing as you are an immortal being in the spiritual image of God even if flawed. But what the system allows for importantly is freewill and there is a consequence to evil actions.

Please provide reference for your claim of your version of hell. This is the hell I've found biblical reference for :

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


... And Hell is a sulfery fiery torment for eternity.

Revelation 20:15 ESV / 37 helpful votes

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelations 21
8 But for the cowardly and [d]unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelations 14 (NEW TESTAMENT)
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Revelations 19
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes upfor ever and ever.”

Matthew 10:28 ESV / 22 helpful votes

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

John 15:6 ESV / 13 helpful votes

If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.


Hebrews 10:26-31 ESV / 12 helpful votes

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

Matthew 5:22 ESV / 10 helpful votes

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 25:30 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


Luke 12:5 ESV / 15 helpful votes

But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!

Revelations 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beastu and the false prophetv had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

Romans 1:18 ESV / 117 helpful votes

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.


(Rev. 19:19-21)
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Revelations 14
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Jeremiah states,

Hebrews 9:22 ESV / 17 helpful votes

Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.


Proverbs 1:24-33
New International Version (NIV)
24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me,
29 since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the Lord.
30 Since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.

Romans 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

[Esquilax]

Please provide reference for your claim of your version of hell. This is the hell I've found biblical reference for :

Hon, you should know how this game is played by now: any verses he disagrees with are metaphor, and all the ones he agrees with aren't.

[Tonus]

Yeah, the Bible has so many differing explanations on what happens after death that you can simply pick one with its attendant out-of-context verses for support, and dismiss the others as metaphors with another slew of out-of-context verses. It's kind of comical, when you look at it from the outside.

[Bad Wolf]

Omg Luckie! You look like Jessica Rabbit

[Esquilax]

Omg Luckie! You look like Jessica Rabbit

Hotter than that, surely.

[Sword of Christ]

As C.S Lewis described it Hell is a prison with the door locked from the inside. If you take a look at the parable of Lazarus and the rich man you'll note the rich man demanded that Lazarus join him in Hell to serve him as he did in life he does not demand to be released from Hell. Forgiveness and salvation from God is guaranteed for everyone but only if want it as God won't force his love on anyone.