Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 7:47 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The modal ontological argument - without modal logic proves atheism
#11
RE: The modal ontological argument - without modal logic proves atheism
(February 14, 2014 at 12:47 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Naturally - ontological arguments are a fucking joke. Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone bothers with them anymore - they're the weakest form of argument by far, IMO.
I think that it's much easier to drag out a (pseudo-)philosophical debate because few enough people understand philosophy sufficiently to call a bullshitter's bluff. It is certainly easier than getting god to step out of his metaphysical closet and wave at us.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
Reply
#12
RE: The modal ontological argument - without modal logic proves atheism
(February 14, 2014 at 12:54 pm)Tonus Wrote:
(February 14, 2014 at 12:47 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Naturally - ontological arguments are a fucking joke. Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone bothers with them anymore - they're the weakest form of argument by far, IMO.
I think that it's much easier to drag out a (pseudo-)philosophical debate because few enough people understand philosophy sufficiently to call a bullshitter's bluff. It is certainly easier than getting god to step out of his metaphysical closet and wave at us.

Good point. The first time I encountered the classical ontological argument I was like - WTF? iI don't even... Derpity Derp.

You know it smells of bullshit, but the turd is disguised well enough that the unwary might still step in it.
Reply
#13
RE: The modal ontological argument - without modal logic proves atheism
(February 14, 2014 at 12:37 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: Seems good to me. Parody ontological arguments are, applied correctly, good responses to it. Smile

Wait... you guys can reply to a seriously proposed ontological argument? You aren't paralyzed with spasms of laughter whenever someone uses it?

That's just me?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Reply
#14
RE: The modal ontological argument - without modal logic proves atheism
(February 14, 2014 at 1:00 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
(February 14, 2014 at 12:37 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: Seems good to me. Parody ontological arguments are, applied correctly, good responses to it. Smile

Wait... you guys can reply to a seriously proposed ontological argument? You aren't paralyzed with spasms of laughter whenever someone uses it?

That's just me?

I usually just make a mental note ("This guy is a non-cognitive") and go about my business.
Reply
#15
RE: The modal ontological argument - without modal logic proves atheism
Well I have to admit I did have slightly loftier aims for this argument than a simple piss take.

The ontological argument has always been a piece of crap but I though this version rather better than any of the others I had seen.

What I wanted to show is that, if you were to take the original argument seriously (yeah - OK- big if) the argument doesn't stop there - even when you have proved your God.

The issue I wanted to highlight is that once the argument is in place it still applies even after you got to God and that in its continuing application it will, ultimately, always disprove your God - retaining logical consistency throughout.

In a way its my attempt to kill this god dammed argument once and for all.

I guess it didn't get there and stopped at parody.

Ah well...
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
Reply
#16
RE: The modal ontological argument - without modal logic proves atheism
Max-greece

The trouble is that it isnt logically consistent to begin with Big Grin
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Belief without Verification or Certainty vulcanlogician 40 3239 May 11, 2022 at 4:50 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  The evolution of logic ignoramus 3 912 October 7, 2019 at 7:34 am
Last Post: onlinebiker
  Ontological Disproof of God negatio 1042 79222 September 14, 2018 at 4:05 pm
Last Post: LadyForCamus
  The moral argument, for atheism! Jehanne 126 13588 July 21, 2018 at 9:47 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  My own moral + ontological argument. Mystic 37 11024 April 17, 2018 at 12:50 pm
Last Post: FatAndFaithless
  Let us go back to "cold" hard logic."Time" Mystic 75 11172 November 10, 2017 at 6:29 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Logic Fallacies: A Quiz to Test Your Knowledge, A Cheat Sheet to Refresh It Rhondazvous 0 980 March 6, 2017 at 6:48 pm
Last Post: Rhondazvous
  Ontological Limericks chimp3 12 3170 December 22, 2016 at 3:22 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  On Anselm's 2nd Formulation of the Ontological Argument FallentoReason 7 3102 November 21, 2016 at 10:57 am
Last Post: FallentoReason
  On Logic and Alternate Universes FallentoReason 328 37281 November 17, 2016 at 11:19 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)