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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 12:12 pm
(February 28, 2014 at 12:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Here is the rest of that passage for context.
Leviticus 25
47 “Suppose a foreigner or temporary resident becomes rich while living among you. If any of your fellow Israelites fall into poverty and are forced to sell themselves to such a foreigner or to a member of his family, 48 they still retain the right to be bought back, even after they have been purchased. They may be bought back by a brother, 49 an uncle, or a cousin. In fact, anyone from the extended family may buy them back. They may also redeem themselves if they have prospered.
Sounds voluntary to me. Crazy how people would sell themselves, and be subjected to being beat within an inch of their life. Also where is the "slave" getting money to redeem himself from? [/sarcasm]
I see: so your response to an unambiguous bible passage stating that foreigners may be bought and sold as property is to point to another passage stating that the rules are different if the slave happens to be Jewish? 
All that passage says that if a Jew becomes enslaved to a foreigner, he can be bought back. It doesn't even address the issue of foreign slaves bought by Jews!
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 12:30 pm
The whole Jewish thing is absolutely irrelevant. 7 years or 7 minutes, I don't give a shit, its immoral. And that trick esquilax was talking about, to enslave your fellow jew forever, you know how that works? You give the slave a wife and then maybe they have children. And at the end of the 7th year, you let the slave go but he has to leave his family behind. But if he wants to stay with his family, you drive a steak through his ear, and he is yours forever. All your justifications and rationalizations for slavery in the bible are completely pathetic. Open your damn eyes.
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“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 12:37 pm
(February 28, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: All that passage says that if a Jew becomes enslaved to a foreigner, he can be bought back. It doesn't even address the issue of foreign slaves bought by Jews!
Is That all you got from that scripture? Actually we've come full circle.
Leviticus 25
7 “Suppose a foreigner or temporary resident becomes rich while living among you. If any of your fellow Israelites fall into poverty and are forced to sell themselves to such a foreigner or to a member of his family, 48 they still retain the right to be bought back, even after they have been purchased. They may be bought back by a brother, 49 an uncle, or a cousin. In fact, anyone from the extended family may buy them back.
these things aren't put in the Bible willy nilly, there is a reason why it's there.
John 5:39-47
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
That passage is describing the "Kinsman Redeemer". If you are sold into bondage you can have a relative buy you back. Likewise the sinner being in bondage to sin, had to rely upon the blood of animals. Animal blood couldn't redeem him, and there is no Human worthy enough. So God himself took on human flesh and became our "Kinsman" in order to buy us back with his own blood.
see the Bible lines up perfectly. the scriptures cannot be broken, that was the only way he could redeem mankind without breaking the scripture.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 12:39 pm
Oddly, for the vast majority of their history, the last thing the residents of Judah had to worry about was capturing foreign slaves.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 12:42 pm
(February 28, 2014 at 12:37 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: That passage is describing the "Kinsman Redeemer". If you are sold into bondage you can have a relative buy you back.
... If you were a Jew. If you were from any other race, you were shit out of luck.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 12:46 pm
Huggy, What part of 'being treated as property' don't you understand? How can you even think that is moral in any way?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 12:51 pm
What - no quotes from the NT on Slavery?
Here's a favourite of mine:
"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)"
Note the provision for your master being Christian himself. Not a word of reproach for him.
All that notwithstanding I have to say the Biblical line on slavery is exactly in accordance with the relationship between the believer and his God. Christians are God's slaves. There is no hope of ever getting freedom - not even after death.
2 words that are missing from the Bible - Democracy and Republic - I wonder why?
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2014 at 1:34 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(February 28, 2014 at 12:30 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: The whole Jewish thing is absolutely irrelevant. 7 years or 7 minutes, I don't give a shit, its immoral. how is it immoral if you decide to sell yourself in to servitude? Please explain. Not giving someone the freedom of choice to do what the want with their life would be "immoral".
Quote:And that trick esquilax was talking about, to enslave your fellow jew forever, you know how that works? You give the slave a wife and then maybe they have children. And at the end of the 7th year, you let the slave go but he has to leave his family behind. But if he wants to stay with his family, you drive a steak through his ear, and he is yours forever. .
If he came with a wife the wife could go with him. I would assume the 7 years still applied to his family, or just wait till the year year of Jubilee, whichever came first. I like how you assume that the person doesn't like being a servant and would never willingly agree to a life of free room and board, when the alternative is probably homelessness. If you ever watched Downton Abby you would find that some find being a servant for some great house an honor. Is that immoral?
(February 28, 2014 at 12:51 pm)max-greece Wrote: What - no quotes from the NT on Slavery?
Here's a favourite of mine:
"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)"
Note the provision for your master being Christian himself. Not a word of reproach for him.
All that notwithstanding I have to say the Biblical line on slavery is exactly in accordance with the relationship between the believer and his God. Christians are God's slaves. There is no hope of ever getting freedom - not even after death.
2 words that are missing from the Bible - Democracy and Republic - I wonder why?
Like I said the words slave/slaves only appears twice in the King James Version of the Bible, which is the most accurate and popular translation.
some translations add words or leave out whole scriptures.
1 Timothy 6(KJV)
1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
as you can see the word "Christian" doesn't even appear.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm
The kjv is not accurate.. look at the 1611.. it has been changed three times since then
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
February 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2014 at 1:36 pm by Bad Wolf.)
(February 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: how is it immoral if you decide to sell yourself in to servitude? Please explain. Not giving someone the freedom of choice to do what the want with their life would be "immoral".
Because the slave owner is taking advantage of the slaves poor fortune. Why could he not pay them, you know, how everyone does today? A job? Where you aren't treated as property. Making people slaves was not the only fucking option.
(February 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If he came with a wife the wife could go with him. I would assume the 7 years still applied to his family, or just wait till the year year of Jubilee, whichever came first.
You are wrong.
(February 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I like how you assume that the person doesn't like being a servant and would never willingly agree to a life of free room and board, when the alternative is probably homelessness.
Whether they like being a Slave or not is totally irrelevant. Slaves are as valuable to the slave owner as a piece of furniture. They could treat them like angels, it doesn't change the fact that they are owned as property, as an object. And that is immoral.
(February 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If you ever watched Downton Abby you would find that some find being a servant for some great house an honor. Is that immoral?
They were servants, not slaves. They were paid. They were free to quit whenever they wanted. And they were not allowed to be beaten to within an inch of their lives. Dumbass. It is not the same at all.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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