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(April 20, 2014 at 4:26 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Robert Spencer refers to it as 20% unintelligible...this because the original language was Syriac not Arabic and it doesn't work so well when you try to shoehorn it in.
Then maybe you don't know even how languages work ... because almost all languages have borrowed words from previous languages and then the words became incorporated them into their own by changing them around a little bit. For example, you know that the word "alcohol" is obviously an English word. But the word also has an Arabic origin, which comes from the root word al-kuhl, a powder used as an eyeliner. So in the same way, certain words in the Quran may have a Syro-Aramaic origin, but this doesn't mean that the words themselves are not Arabic or that the Quran is using words from other languages. The language of the Quran is, irrefutably, pure Arabic.
Muslim scholars are already aware that many of the words in the Quran are variations of words that are found in the Syriac and Aramaic languages. These words already became a part of the Arabic dictionary during that time, and again, this is a well-known phenomenon that has occurred in all the other languages as they gradually evolved over the course of time.
April 20, 2014 at 5:19 pm (This post was last modified: April 20, 2014 at 5:23 pm by Mystic.)
(April 20, 2014 at 4:56 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: they usually cite where the Quran says the Earth is a sphere, despite the fact it isn't.
The Quran potentially says it's an egg shape I believe. Not a sphere. But this seems to be a bad translation, and something people hearing at that time would not assume and all the Quran is really saying is that the earth was expanded as in made bigger after the creation of the heavens.
(April 20, 2014 at 5:14 pm)Rayaan Wrote:
(April 20, 2014 at 4:26 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Robert Spencer refers to it as 20% unintelligible...this because the original language was Syriac not Arabic and it doesn't work so well when you try to shoehorn it in.
Then maybe you don't know even how languages work ... because almost all languages have borrowed words from previous languages and then the words became incorporated them into their own by changing them around a little bit. For example, you know that the word "alcohol" is obviously an English word. But the word also has an Arabic origin, which comes from the root word al-kuhl, a powder used as an eyeliner. So in the same way, certain words in the Quran may have a Syro-Aramaic origin, but this doesn't mean that the words themselves are not Arabic or that the Quran is using words from other languages. The language of the Quran is, irrefutably, pure Arabic.
Muslim scholars are already aware that many of the words in the Quran are variations of words that are found in the Syriac and Aramaic languages. These words already became a part of the Arabic dictionary during that time, and again, this is a well-known phenomenon that has occurred in all the other languages as they gradually evolved over the course of time.
I would have to add, during the time Quran was revealed, Arabic language was not fully universal and there was different dialects and it was very loose, and it lacked universal grammar as well. The grammar developed after Quran and Quran was used to create the grammar and used as an axis, a universal frame of reference to give structure of the language after it was very loose.
(April 20, 2014 at 4:08 pm)rhn2704 Wrote: Today is the Age of Science.So just tell me how is it possible that there are many established scientific facts in the Quran which were only discovered some decades back and Quran has already mentioned it 1400 years ago ???
There has to be something about the Quran which you or I can't competely neglect.
This is something that gets regurgitated a lot by Muslims without a single shred of evidence. I guess they just think it sounds good so they spit it out hoping no one asks for proof.
This IS the age of science so we're going to ask for hard, factual evidence for this bullshit statement.
What ya got?
Rahul here are few which I have mentioned :
1. Mountains
The Quran draws our attention to a very important characteristic of mountains:
Did We not make the earth a resting place? And the mountains as stakes? [78:6-7]
The Quran indicates that mountains have deep roots by using the word stakes to describe them.
In fact mountains do have deep roots, and the word stakes is an accurate description for them. A book titled ‘Earth’ by Geophysicist Frank Press explains that mountains are like stakes, and are buried deep under the surface of the earth.
The fact that mountains have deep ‘stake’ like roots was not known, until after the development of the theory of plate tectonics in the beginning of the 20th century.
2. Expansion of Universe
At a time when the science of Astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in Quran:
And it is We who have built the Universe with [Our creative] power and keep expanding it. [51:47]
The fact that the universe is expanding was discovered in the last century. The physicist Stephen Hawking in his book ‘A Brief History of Time’ writes, “The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the 20th century.”
3. Sun’s Orbit
In 1512 the astronomer Nicholas Copernicus put forward his theory that the Sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system, and that the planets revolve around it. The belief that the Sun is stationary was widespread amongst astronomers until the 20th century. It is now a well-established scientific fact that the Sun is not stationary, but is moving in an orbit around the centre of our Milky Way galaxy.
The Quran mentions the orbit of the Sun:
It is He who created night and day, the Sun and the Moon, each floating in its orbit. [21:33]
The Quran would have been wrong according to astronomers just a couple of decades ago. But we now know that the Quranic account of the Sun’s motion is consistent with modern Astronomy.
4. Pain Receptors
For a long time it was thought that the sense of feeling and pain was dependent on the brain. However it has been discovered that there are pain receptors present in the skin.
Without these pain receptors, a person would not be able to feel pain.
Consider the following verse on pain:
We shall send those who reject Our revelations to the (Hell) Fire. When their skins have been burned away, We shall replace them with new ones so that they may continue to feel the pain: God is Almighty, All-Wise. [4:56]
God tells the people who reject his message that when they are in Hell and their skins are burnt off (so they can’t feel any pain), he will give them new skins so that they continue to feel the pain.
The Quran makes it clear that pain is dependent upon on the skin. The discovery of pain receptors in the skin is a fairly recent discovery for Biology.
5 . Embryology
"Proclaim! (or Read!) In the name Of thy Lord and Cherisher, WHO created---Created man, out of A (mere) clot of congealed blood." [AL-QUR'AN 96:1-2]
The word 'alaq' besides meaning a congealed clot of blood also means something that clings, a leech-like substance.
Dr. Keith Moore had no knowledge whether an embryo in the initial stages appears like a leech. To check this out he studied the initial stage of the embryo under a very powerful microscope in his laboratory and compared what he observed with a diagram of a leech and he was astonished at the striking resemblance between the two! In the same manner, he acquired more information on embryology, that was hitherto not known to him, from the QUR'AN.
At a conference in Cairo Dr Keith Moore presented a research paper and stated:
"It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God, or Allah."
Dr. Moore was a former President of the Canadian Association of Anatomists, and of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists. He was honoured by the Canadian Association of Anatomists with the prestigious J.C.B. Grant Award and in 1994 he received the Honoured Member Award of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists "for outstanding contributions to the field of clinical anatomy."
April 21, 2014 at 7:22 am (This post was last modified: April 21, 2014 at 7:25 am by Fidel_Castronaut.)
You don't need to copy and paste the same post (which is itself a copy and paste post) over and over to different users.
Not that I have the time nor the inclination to dissect your post, but from the outset it appears to be a case of shoehorning very vague and non-specific passages in a poorly written plagiarism of other holy books to fit modern breakthroughs we have made upon studying the universe.
Nothing in the Quran about antibiotics? What about DNA?
April 21, 2014 at 7:28 am (This post was last modified: April 21, 2014 at 7:41 am by Confused Ape.)
(April 20, 2014 at 4:08 pm)rhn2704 Wrote: Ok Consider this,Lets just say today we just remove all the scriptures which exists today in the world.All the holy scriptures which are present whether from internet,the books,media etc.
Just think which will be the only scripture which can be brought back how it was word by word as it was revealed at their respective times?
I'd say the Book of Mormon - there are still first edition copies around today so people know exactly how this text started out.
Quote:...and amid the attic clutter, at the bottom of a box of books, was the treasure: a 177-year-old first-edition copy of the Book of Mormon.
At an auction held yesterday in nearby Geneva, an undisclosed bidder from the East Coast paid $105,600, including the auctioneer’s commission, for the book, which is considered sacred by Mormons. There were originally 5,000 first-edition copies of the Book of Mormon, and some collectors estimate that fewer than 500 may remain today.
It's a sacred text for Mormons who believe Joseph's Smith's story about the angel Moroni showing him where the golden plates were buried. This is no different to people believing that the Bible and the Quran were revealed. Nobody has found a first edition copy of the Quran, though.
(April 20, 2014 at 4:08 pm)rhn2704 Wrote: Ok Consider this,Lets just say today we just remove all the scriptures which exists today in the world.All the holy scriptures which are present whether from internet,the books,media etc.
Just think which will be the only scripture which can be brought back how it was word by word as it was revealed at their respective times?
I'd say the Book of Mormon - there are still first edition copies around today so people know exactly how this text started out.
I said which scripture can come back word by word or letter by letter the same way how it is available today if it is disappeared from this Earth.
Consider this example about the author of Harry Potter series,J.K Rowling.
Even she cannot bring the book back word by word or letter by letter.
If it just disappeared from this Earth.She may write the same story again but definetly the Text will not be accurate and precise and same exact way as to how it is today.
Quote:...and amid the attic clutter, at the bottom of a box of books, was the treasure: a 177-year-old first-edition copy of the Book of Mormon.
At an auction held yesterday in nearby Geneva, an undisclosed bidder from the East Coast paid $105,600, including the auctioneer’s commission, for the book, which is considered sacred by Mormons. There were originally 5,000 first-edition copies of the Book of Mormon, and some collectors estimate that fewer than 500 may remain today.
It's a sacred text for Mormons who believe Joseph's Smith's story about the angel Moroni showing him where the golden plates were buried. This is no different to people believing that the Bible and the Quran were revealed. Nobody has found a first edition copy of the Quran, though.
There are no editions of Quran..it's one as the same and will remain the same forever....It has no versions.It's preserved in its pure form.
Quran was not revealed to Prophet in a Book format.It was recited to him.It was also not revealed all at once.It was revealed in a period of about 23 years in the Islamic month of Ramadan.
April 21, 2014 at 10:58 am (This post was last modified: April 21, 2014 at 11:00 am by Chas.)
(April 20, 2014 at 5:13 pm)rhn2704 Wrote:
(April 20, 2014 at 4:23 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Which scientific things has the quran predicted?
1. Mountains
The Quran draws our attention to a very important characteristic of mountains:
Did We not make the earth a resting place? And the mountains as stakes? [78:6-7]
The Quran indicates that mountains have deep roots by using the word stakes to describe them.
In fact mountains do have deep roots, and the word stakes is an accurate description for them. A book titled ‘Earth’ by Geophysicist Frank Press explains that mountains are like stakes, and are buried deep under the surface of the earth.
The fact that mountains have deep ‘stake’ like roots was not known, until after the development of the theory of plate tectonics in the beginning of the 20th century.
2. Expansion of Universe
At a time when the science of Astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in Quran:
And it is We who have built the Universe with [Our creative] power and keep expanding it. [51:47]
The fact that the universe is expanding was discovered in the last century. The physicist Stephen Hawking in his book ‘A Brief History of Time’ writes, “The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the 20th century.”
3. Sun’s Orbit
In 1512 the astronomer Nicholas Copernicus put forward his theory that the Sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system, and that the planets revolve around it. The belief that the Sun is stationary was widespread amongst astronomers until the 20th century. It is now a well-established scientific fact that the Sun is not stationary, but is moving in an orbit around the centre of our Milky Way galaxy.
The Quran mentions the orbit of the Sun:
It is He who created night and day, the Sun and the Moon, each floating in its orbit. [21:33]
The Quran would have been wrong according to astronomers just a couple of decades ago. But we now know that the Quranic account of the Sun’s motion is consistent with modern Astronomy.
4. Pain Receptors
For a long time it was thought that the sense of feeling and pain was dependent on the brain. However it has been discovered that there are pain receptors present in the skin.
Without these pain receptors, a person would not be able to feel pain.
Consider the following verse on pain:
We shall send those who reject Our revelations to the (Hell) Fire. When their skins have been burned away, We shall replace them with new ones so that they may continue to feel the pain: God is Almighty, All-Wise. [4:56]
God tells the people who reject his message that when they are in Hell and their skins are burnt off (so they can’t feel any pain), he will give them new skins so that they continue to feel the pain.
The Quran makes it clear that pain is dependent upon on the skin. The discovery of pain receptors in the skin is a fairly recent discovery for Biology.
5 . Embryology
"Proclaim! (or Read!) In the name Of thy Lord and Cherisher, WHO created---Created man, out of A (mere) clot of congealed blood." [AL-QUR'AN 96:1-2]
The word 'alaq' besides meaning a congealed clot of blood also means something that clings, a leech-like substance.
Dr. Keith Moore had no knowledge whether an embryo in the initial stages appears like a leech. To check this out he studied the initial stage of the embryo under a very powerful microscope in his laboratory and compared what he observed with a diagram of a leech and he was astonished at the striking resemblance between the two! In the same manner, he acquired more information on embryology, that was hitherto not known to him, from the QUR'AN.
At a conference in Cairo Dr Keith Moore presented a research paper and stated:
"It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God, or Allah."
Dr. Moore was a former President of the Canadian Association of Anatomists, and of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists. He was honoured by the Canadian Association of Anatomists with the prestigious J.C.B. Grant Award and in 1994 he received the Honoured Member Award of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists "for outstanding contributions to the field of clinical anatomy."
Mountains do not have roots or stakes. They are a folding of earth's crust and are therefore quite shallow.
The 'it' refers to power of understanding, not the universe.
The orbit of the sun was around the Earth - they were geocentrists.
That does not say anything about pain receptors; it is obvious that if the skin has burned away, it would have to be replaced to burn away again.
Clot of blood does not describe an embryo.
Your confirmation bias is enormous. Try thinking rationally instead.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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