Life is at the center of everything

[LostLocke]

I suppose that depends entirely on what you mean by "at the center of things". I'd hate to assume that you're equivocating.

"Center of all things" in this thread would be the midpoint between the planck length and the observable universe.

Even if I were to grant that idea, it's only tentatively at the center.
If we find a significant amount more stuff that is larger or smaller than us on the scale, that would shift the entire scale in one direction or the other, putting something else at the center.

[Heywood]

"Center of all things" in this thread would be the midpoint between the planck length and the observable universe.

Even if I were to grant that idea, it's only tentatively at the center.
If we find a significant amount more stuff that is larger or smaller than us on the scale, that would shift the entire scale in one direction or the other, putting something else at the center.

You are not interpreting it correctly. Its not the amount of stuff. It is size. To make the scale shift you would either need to increase the size of the observable universe or decrease the size of the planck length. You would need to make one end of the ruler longer so to speak.

[Menos]

yea i always wondered if we waz really small or really big.

[Heywood]

Did you check out the page he linked? Pretty cool. I think that was reason enough for the thread.

Yeah, I've seen it - it is indeed very cool. I'm just questioning the meaning the OP appears to be giving life's relative location on the scale. Maybe he isn't, and I'm reading between the lines something that isn't there. Just curious what his point is - if there is one.

Well lets go ahead and discuss this from a theistic perspective. Suppose God created the Universe such that He wanted life to emerge in multiple places. If He did this He couldn't put each emergent colony at the center of things geographically. If earth is at the center then the Wookies in the far far away galaxy are offset. This would make the Wookies very upset....and as I am sure you know....its not wise to upset a Wookie.

What God can do to give life a special place in the Universe...no matter where it is.....is put life in the center of things in terms of scale. Now every emergent colony of life has reason to give Praise to God Almighty.

Now lets discuss this from a non theistic perspective. Life is where it is on the scale because it has to be in the middle. If it were much smaller there wouldn't be enough atoms making up the organism to generate the necessary complexity. If it were much bigger the speed of light would retard its ability to think and move about the world.

Imagine a brain the size of the orbit of the earth. It might take hours for that brain to perform simple calculations like 2+2 because signals from one neuron could take 16 minutes to travel to another neuron on the other side of the brain.

Life can't exist on either end of the scale. It has to be in the middle....so it is in the middle....simple as that.

---

yea i always wondered if we waz really small or really big.

The earth isn't a cosmic speck as some people sometimes think. Its actually one of the larger things in the Universe. I wouldn't say the earth and humans are really big things....but cosmically speaking...they are big things.....just not really big things.

[Angrboda]

This only works if you use a logarithmic scale rather than a linear one. Thus it is just an artifact of the scale chosen, not an actual result. On top of that, humans still aren't at the center, as the planck scale is at 10^-36, whereas the universe is at 10^27 (humans are roughly 2x10^0). The only place we're actually at the center of is where the designer of the app chose to put the scroll bar's midpoint.

[Heywood]

This only works if you use a logarithmic scale rather than a linear one. Thus it is just an artifact of the scale chosen, not an actual result. On top of that, humans still aren't at the center, as the planck scale is at 10^-36, whereas the universe is at 10^27 (humans are roughly 2x10^0). The only place we're actually at the center of is where the designer of the app chose to put the scroll bar's midpoint.

At conception, human beings are 1.2 X 10^-4 meters which is almost the exact midpoint. Logarithmic scales are often used to compare size. This scale wasn't created or selected just because it fits the result desired by a theistic argument. The little scale of the universe game wasn't created to support a theistic argument.

[Faith No More]

Life can't exist on either end of the scale. It has to be in the middle....so it is in the middle....simple as that.

But none of what you've said actually explains what the relevence of this information is.

Even if we are to grant your premise, what is the significance, other than it's pretty neat?

[Heywood]

Life can't exist on either end of the scale. It has to be in the middle....so it is in the middle....simple as that.

But none of what you've said actually explains what the relevence of this information is.

Even if we are to grant your premise, what is the significance, other than it's pretty neat?

In my mind, when an atheist(or anyone else for that matter) claims that life occupies no significant or special place I believe them to be wrong. I will readily admit though, that the special place we do hold could be an artifact of the laws of physics and not necessarily by the design of an intellect.

[Angrboda]

This only works if you use a logarithmic scale rather than a linear one. Thus it is just an artifact of the scale chosen, not an actual result. On top of that, humans still aren't at the center, as the planck scale is at 10^-36, whereas the universe is at 10^27 (humans are roughly 2x10^0). The only place we're actually at the center of is where the designer of the app chose to put the scroll bar's midpoint.

At conception, human beings are 1.2 X 10^-4 meters which is almost the exact midpoint. Logarithmic scales are often used to compare size.

This is just an example of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy, you pick the point in a human's life which fits the argument, retroactively. There's no reason to consider the size at conception as opposed to the size at birth as opposed to the size at adulthood, it's just an ad hoc addition to the question to make the answer turn out as you would like it to be.

This scale wasn't created or selected just because it fits the result desired by a theistic argument. The little scale of the universe game wasn't created to support a theistic argument.

You're missing the point. Since the choice of scale was arbitrary, where something falls on that scale is arbitrarily chosen as well. If I were to choose a scale based on the logarithm using base 80 instead of 10, then something else would show up as the item at the center. Because the choice of scale is purely arbitrary and without sense, the result of what is at the center is without meaning or sense. We have ten fingers and use base ten math, so a base 10 logarithm seems natural. An animal with 80 tentacles might consider a logarithm using base 80 more natural. On top of that, depending on the size of the creature, it might be at the center of the scale using base 80, even though it's a different size than a human egg! So the fact that the scale can be fitted to the result rather than being a necessary choice makes it a second, deeper example of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

[Faith No More]

In my mind, when an atheist(or anyone else for that matter) claims that life occupies no significant or special place I believe them to be wrong. I will readily admit though, that the special place we do hold could be an artifact of the laws of physics and not necessarily by the design of an intellect.

My point was, though, is you're not explaining how this represents a "significant or special place."

Why should I see this as anything more than a mathematical curiosity?