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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 5:30 pm
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2009 at 5:31 pm by fr0d0.)
(December 13, 2009 at 9:02 pm)Tiberius Wrote: So an argument from authority straight out of the box. The main reasoning these people come to is "we haven't got enough food". The world is hardly overpopulated, we have more than enough room for everyone, but not enough food for everyone. So it's not "overpopulation" at all. However, science has come up with ways to increase crop supply, to genetically engineer foods, to make foods safer, etc etc. The lunatics and religions of the world have argued against all this with new age "organic" shite.
Attenborough quoted someone saying that there is a physical limit to productivity. Which is undeniable. You're wrong to assume his argument is centred on food though. His main point was the finite supply of water and the reduction in that resource by pollution. You'd really need to check his presentation to counter it. Suffice to say though... so far you've struck out twice 
Quote:No, the Catholic church takes its position from the pope, who promotes the lie that condoms spread AIDS. Convincing people not to be promiscuous is a good thing, I don't deny it. However, the use of condoms is too! Just look at the number of "abstinence only" children end up pregnant and you'll realise that teaching this kind of thing as the "only way forward" is ridiculous. People don't want to be abstinent. It isn't natural.
No one has said it's right to abstain. They're just saying promiscuity is bad.
For the Pope to condone the use of condoms could, as he says, aggravate the spread of AIDS by implying that promiscuity is acceptable.
Quote:When did I say I was positive for this reality? There are many things wrong with this reality. I am capable about thinking positive about my life...without God...
Which is it then? Are you positive or negative? Your life > good, reality > bad!?
As I keep saying, God is just a way of thinking about it. God is a red herring here. I rationalise reality as good. You rationalise bad.
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 5:54 pm
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2009 at 5:56 pm by theVOID.)
(December 14, 2009 at 5:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No one has said it's right to abstain. They're just saying promiscuity is bad.
For the Pope to condone the use of condoms could, as he says, aggravate the spread of AIDS by implying that promiscuity is acceptable.
I'm sorry fr0d0, is there a Catholic Church in an alternate reality? Because the one in this reality most definitely preaches Abstinence and makes the claim that Condoms cause AIDS.
"a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems." - Pope Benedict
'You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms, On the contrary, it increases the problem.' - Pope Benedict.
It is important to not that his remarks have more to do with an unhealthy obsession with sex than any factual basis (Just as an anorexic has an unhealthy obsession with food), in fact almost all the studies that have been done on the effectiveness of condoms refute the Pope's claims.
"Consistent and correct use of male latex condoms can reduce (though not eliminate) the risk of STD transmission." - Center for Disease control and prevention
"Overall, the preponderance of available epidemiologic studies have found that when used consistently and correctly, condoms are highly effective in preventing the sexual transmission of HIV infection and reduce the risk of other STDs." - CDC
"New data suggests the decline in HIV prevalence in Uganda is due to condoms -- and one other factor. The number of people dying of AIDS just about equals the number getting infected with HIV. The country is often held up as a model of AIDS prevention." - NPR
"Increased condom use and premature deaths from AIDS-related diseases might be playing more of a role in declining HIV prevalence in Uganda than abstinence and fidelity, according to a study presented Wednesday at the 12th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections in Boston" - San Francisco Chronicle
And a study on the exact issue of the Pope condemning condoms and why he is completely wrong:
http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_a...928-34.php
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 7:35 pm
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2009 at 7:36 pm by fr0d0.)
"The Catholic Church most definitely preaches Abstinence and makes the claim that Condoms cause AIDS."
Nothing there contradicts my statements VOID. Please show me proof of your claim. I'm not comfortable with my position, and less comfortable that no one has refuted it yet.
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 7:49 pm
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2009 at 7:50 pm by theVOID.)
(December 14, 2009 at 7:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: "The Catholic Church most definitely preaches Abstinence and makes the claim that Condoms cause AIDS."
Nothing there contradicts my statements VOID. Please show me proof of your claim. I'm not comfortable with my position, and less comfortable that no one has refuted it yet.
The two statements from the Pope i provide was ample evidence for his claim that Condoms cause AIDS to spread faster, as for his stance on abstinence:
"In a meeting with African Catholic bishops on Friday, Pope Benedict XVI encouraged them to continue using abstinence education as the primary tool to combat the AIDS epidemic that is ravaging the continent. He reiterated Catholic teaching in favor of abstinence and said it was the only "fail safe" methods of preventing AIDS." - Benedict. Source: Life News
"“The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids….You can’t resolve it with the distribution of condoms. On the contrary, it increases the problem.” - Benedict. Source: Vienna Blog
Abstinence has never been shown to be a realistic method for stopping the spread of AIDS, the pope ignores this fact entirely in favor of ancient tradition - It's pathetic and immoral.
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 8:11 pm
No your statements do not show that the Pope said that condoms spread AIDS - that's twisting the words. What he actually said is what I said above.
Likewise in your links, never is the Pope quoted as saying abstinence stops AIDS. Abstinence education is about sex in a committed relationship, and again anti promiscuity. It isn't about total abstinence from sex.
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 8:29 pm
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 8:32 pm
It increases the problem - which is entirely possible. He never said it causes it as you claimed.
Prove that abstinence doesn't work. Are you saying promiscuity prevents AIDS?
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 8:43 pm
(December 14, 2009 at 4:33 am)tackattack Wrote: (December 13, 2009 at 9:53 am)LEDO Wrote: Seems to me that a God can: 1) Stop people from suffering, but does not. 2) end disease, but does not, 3) end death but does not, 4) end poverty but does not, 5) end starvation, but does not ...meets the definition of evil.
Looks like to me like the devil is God in exile. I would worship your god, if he was nicer.
Niceness is something I can't attribute to God. If man were nicer I'd have more faith in my fellow man. On your above points how does inaction = evil. If I don't help 1 homeless man but 1000 others does that make me evil? Just because he doesn't stop your suffering, your diseases, etc. doesn't mean he doesn't supply that to others. Even if the only thing I believe he's done is kickstarted our universe; that's enough for me to thank him daily.
If you have the ability to help a 1001 homeless people and single out one individual to ignore, that may not make you evil, but just an asshole to one homeless guy.
"On Earth as it is in Heaven, the Cosmic Roots of the Bible" available on the Amazon.
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 8:47 pm
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2009 at 8:49 pm by theVOID.)
(December 14, 2009 at 8:32 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: It increases the problem - which is entirely possible. He never said it causes it as you claimed.
Prove that abstinence doesn't work. Are you saying promiscuity prevents AIDS?
He claimed it causes an increase in infection rates, which is completely false, i already linked to a few studies in earlier posts. Take Uganda for example, the spread of condoms helped kick the curb so that more AIDS patients are dying than are being infected, the total number of infected has fallen by 6.2% over in 10 years and was falling consistently up until the bush government decided not to send condoms to Uganda in favor of abstinence
Abstinence Programs Don't Work, Largest Study to Date Concludes
This article reports on a study conducted by Mathematica Policy Research Inc. of students in four abstinence programs, as well as peers from the same communities who did not participate in the abstinence programs. A federally mandated report said that students who participated in sexual-abstinence education programs partially funded by the federal government were just as likely to have sex, and had the same number of sexual partners, as those who did not take part in the programs. Both groups of youths--those who participated in abstinence education, and those who participated in other health education programs available in their areas--had a median age of first intercourse of 14 years and 9 months. However, those students who participated in the abstinence programs were just as likely to use contraception as those who did not. Some critics of abstinence education programs have argued that they reduce rates of contraception usage.
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/cus...o=EJ763143
No-sex programmes 'not working'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6927733.st
Abstinence-only sex ed defies common sense
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9504871/
Study Casts Doubt on Abstinence-Only Programs
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...01003.html
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RE: What does an atheist...
December 14, 2009 at 9:40 pm
(December 14, 2009 at 8:32 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: It increases the problem - which is entirely possible. He never said it causes it as you claimed.
Prove that abstinence doesn't work. Are you saying promiscuity prevents AIDS? theVOID said "his claim that Condoms cause AIDS to spread faster" (my bolding). That isn't a claim that condoms cause AIDS, but that condoms spread AIDS faster.
This is a blatant lie. It's not "entirely possible" at all. Having sex with a condom dramatically reduces the chances of you catching AIDS.
Yes, abstinence works too (if you are *actually* abstinent and not just claiming to be), but most people don't want to stop having sex, so condoms are the next best thing!
The pope has continually blamed condoms for the spread of AIDS, and the fact that a rational person such as yourself defends him is disgusting.
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