Whats the point of deism?

[jesus_wept]

I wouldn't say deism makes less sense than monotheism but I'm not convinced it makes much sense. It seems to me like they're arguing for a god of the gaps who doesn't do anything, might as well just become an atheist and ditch the god of the gap IMO.

[CapnAwesome]

What I really don't understand about Deists are why they aren't agnostics. I guess many Deists probably trend towards Agnostic Theism anyway. The Deist God is the ultimate unprovable as he doesn't do anything at all. I find the idea rather pointless myself.

More importantly however Deists are part of the non-religious brotherhood and tend to be opposed to organized religion. It drives me crazy when Atheists and Agnostics get at one anothers throats over piddly differences and the same applies to Deists. Save your criticism for someone who matters (and for someone that you actually know something about.)

[DeistPaladin]

Never yet found a way to dismiss the deist god other than the lack of a need for one - and that's not really provable at this stage.

It seems to me like they're arguing for a god of the gaps who doesn't do anything, might as well just become an atheist and ditch the god of the gap IMO.

It drives me crazy when Atheists and Agnostics get at one anothers throats over piddly differences and the same applies to Deists. Save your criticism for someone who matters (and for someone that you actually know something about.)

All of you make excellent points and this is where any atheist/deist conversations end up. It's plausible but there's no proof for it. The burden of proof is on me. I can't provide much aside from my "homosexuality proves God" argument (I think I offered that in another thread and may link to it in an edit of this post), which always gets a mutual chuckle but isn't compelling. I admit it's instinctive and there you are.

In practice, deism is atheism with poetic flourishes. How I live my life, find meaning and evaluate moral issues would be no different were I to become an atheist tomorrow. The only distinction are some abstract philosophical musings that have no practical impact.

So why then? A good question. I described it earlier as a truce between two sides of me, the skeptical and the sentimental. The natural universe and the potential of human civilization are awe inspiring for me. I remember walking out of the New York planetarium on Sunday morning with my extended family and, without thinking, blurted out the rhetorical question of why anyone would waste their time in church within earshot of my Christian sister. The natural universe is not only enough to instill that sense of wonder but it dwarfs the petty miracles in the Bible. My skeptical side is satisfied that this "spirituality" is kept grounded in the natural realm, based on things that are real enough.

Dawkins in The God Delusion described deism as "watered down theism", a quote that leads me to speculate that he's never met any deists or actually spoken with them and is simply going by the dictionary. The Christian and the Muslim also use the term "God" and the similarity ends there. Even the shared term itself has a radically different meaning for us then for them. One atheist once complained rightly enough that deism was a "category confusion" since the same word suddenly means something completely different (which is why I frequently use the term "Yahweh" for the Christian god). I think the category confusion works for the freethought movement, since it underscores that the work for the theist goes well beyond establishing a creator but also knowing the mind of it.

I did go through a crisis of non-faith for about two weeks wondering why I can't be a normal atheist like all my friends and most of my family. Such social instincts to conform would be the wrong reason to be an atheist, most of you would probably agree. I just concluded it is simply what I am.

[Minimalist]

why I can't be a normal atheist like all my friends and most of my family.

"Normal" is overrated, D-P.

[CapnAwesome]

Dawkins in The God Delusion described deism as "watered down theism", a quote that leads me to speculate that he's never met any deists or actually spoken with them and is simply going by the dictionary. The Christian and the Muslim also use the term "God" and the similarity ends there. Even the shared term itself has a radically different meaning for us then for them. One atheist once complained rightly enough that deism was a "category confusion" since the same word suddenly means something completely different (which is why I frequently use the term "Yahweh" for the Christian god). I think the category confusion works for the freethought movement, since it underscores that the work for the theist goes well beyond establishing a creator but also knowing the mind of it

I'm kind of curious if you would describe yourself as an agnostic as well as a deist the same way that many people on here call themselves agnostic atheists.

[DeistPaladin]

I'm kind of curious if you would describe yourself as an agnostic as well as a deist the same way that many people on here call themselves agnostic atheists.

Maybe I'm misusing that term. That's my skeptical side. I don't know what the truth is. But instinctively I remain convinced. Hence, I'm describing myself as an agnostic deist.

[Cinjin]

Why do you need god as a starting point?
How did he manage to die?
If he didn't die why is he so inactive and what is he doing?


Seriously it even makes less sense then monotheistic bullshit.

I'm not quite sure how deism could possibly make less sense but I take no offense to your musings. Hell, I make fun of people's gods almost daily. Also, I don't see any rofl humor in your questions. In fact they seem to come from someone highly misinformed about Deism. (Although, Minimalist's remark about jacking off on planet Kolob was far more worthy of the emoticon you posted. )

Additionally, you claim to be an agnostic. Agnostics are only one degree away from being Deists (and vice versa I suppose). I would expect this sort of mocking inquiry from someone who was far more removed from the deistic belief structure. That being said, ask as many questions as you like. I have no problem with scrutiny of my own (admittedly unproven) ideas.

Never yet found a way to dismiss the deist god other than the lack of a need for one - and that's not really provable at this stage.

A very fair assessment max. In fact, I have said many times, that I/we have no need of (God) the creator being in our daily lives.

So why then? A good question. I described it earlier as a truce between two sides of me, the skeptical and the sentimental. The natural universe and the potential of human civilization are awe inspiring for me. I remember walking out of the New York planetarium on Sunday morning with my extended family and, without thinking, blurted out the rhetorical question of why anyone would waste their time in church within earshot of my Christian sister. The natural universe is not only enough to instill that sense of wonder but it dwarfs the petty miracles in the Bible. My skeptical side is satisfied that this "spirituality" is kept grounded in the natural realm, based on things that are real enough.

Dawkins in The God Delusion described deism as "watered down theism", a quote that leads me to speculate that he's never met any deists or actually spoken with them and is simply going by the dictionary. The Christian and the Muslim also use the term "God" and the similarity ends there. Even the shared term itself has a radically different meaning for us then for them. One atheist once complained rightly enough that deism was a "category confusion" since the same word suddenly means something completely different (which is why I frequently use the term "Yahweh" for the Christian god). I think the category confusion works for the freethought movement, since it underscores that the work for the theist goes well beyond establishing a creator but also knowing the mind of it.

I did go through a crisis of non-faith for about two weeks wondering why I can't be a normal atheist like all my friends and most of my family. Such social instincts to conform would be the wrong reason to be an atheist, most of you would probably agree. I just concluded it is simply what I am.

Mad props to DP for saying so eloquently the things I never seem to be able to impart without writing a 6 page dissertation that NO one has interest in reading.
Everything I emboldened above are thoughts that I have had many many times. They are the reasons I am very comfortable calling myself a Deist. They are also the reasons why I loathe organized religion and those who believe they know the mind of god simply because they read the words of uneducated crackpots and charlatans.

[max-greece]

In practice, deism is atheism with poetic flourishes. How I live my life, find meaning and evaluate moral issues would be no different were I to become an atheist tomorrow.

This!

Excellently put - particularly the bit in bold.

I have to say I haven't met too many Deists in my life but the few I have met always ended up on the same side as me in any discussion with a Theist.

When left to ourselves it was almost impossible to find areas of disagreement.

Its extremely difficult to differentiate there's nothing "up there," from, there is something up there, but it doesn't give a shit.

Usually such discussions ended up

Whilst discussions with theists ended up

[Cinjin]

Whilst discussions with theists ended up

Yeah, whats even more telling is when theists discuss with theists and it ends up:

[CapnAwesome]

I'm kind of curious if you would describe yourself as an agnostic as well as a deist the same way that many people on here call themselves agnostic atheists.

Maybe I'm misusing that term. That's my skeptical side. I don't know what the truth is. But instinctively I remain convinced. Hence, I'm describing myself as an agnostic deist.

In solidarity I'll change my description to Agnostic Atheist.