Is Hell or Prison the best cure for immorality?

[Rabb Allah]

All religions as of now have at least some concept of divine punishment for immorality and it seems to me that this has worked to a varying degree all until mankind stopped believing in hell. Although there are the religious wars and what not. But on the small scale level it seems to have done something.

Is a just hell better than a just prison?

[fr0d0]

Conviction is only internal for the perpetrator. Man made justice is always flawed, so is crippled somewhat.

[Zen Badger]

All religions as of now have at least some concept of divine punishment for immorality and it seems to me that this has worked to a varying degree all until mankind stopped believing in hell. Although there are the religious wars and what not. But on the small scale level it seems to have done something.

Is a just hell better than a just prison?

Define immorality please.

[Chas]

Since there is no hell, that makes prison better.

[Esquilax]

All religions as of now have at least some concept of divine punishment for immorality and it seems to me that this has worked to a varying degree all until mankind stopped believing in hell. Although there are the religious wars and what not. But on the small scale level it seems to have done something.

Is a just hell better than a just prison?

Couple things: one, if we're talking about a just hell, we can't be talking about any of the religious ones, because an eternity of any kind of punishment isn't just, nor can it be a cure for anything- as you allude to in your thread title- because it's clearly not there to get anyone better. It's there as retribution for not staying in line.

Secondly, does a punishment devised by an entity that assumes power for itself without ever having to earn it, who excludes the possibility of ever being recused or losing any of that power no matter its abuses, who requires no consent in order to govern you, and assumes a worldwide jurisdiction independent of any kind of legal checks and balances, sound just to you? If any person did it, you'd consider that an unacceptable dictatorship; why does whatever form of god get a free pass?

[Chad32]

All religions as of now have at least some concept of divine punishment for immorality and it seems to me that this has worked to a varying degree all until mankind stopped believing in hell. Although there are the religious wars and what not. But on the small scale level it seems to have done something.

Is a just hell better than a just prison?

Couple things: one, if we're talking about a just hell, we can't be talking about any of the religious ones, because an eternity of any kind of punishment isn't just, nor can it be a cure for anything- as you allude to in your thread title- because it's clearly not there to get anyone better. It's there as retribution for not staying in line.

Secondly, does a punishment devised by an entity that assumes power for itself without ever having to earn it, who excludes the possibility of ever being recused or losing any of that power no matter its abuses, who requires no consent in order to govern you, and assumes a worldwide jurisdiction independent of any kind of legal checks and balances, sound just to you? If any person did it, you'd consider that an unacceptable dictatorship; why does whatever form of god get a free pass?

Got to agree here. Anyone who thinks hell is permanent can't call it a cure for anything. It isn't rehabilitation. It's retribution. Plus most people have heard the saying that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only reason anyone would think that Yahweh is the paragon of virtue is that he says he is. This is despite doing things that many modern audiences think is nothing short of grotesque.

So no, there is no justice in what most people think of as hell. The absolute worst prisons in the world are automatically better just because they aren't permanent.

[*Deidre*]

Well, statistics for the American prison population, show well over 60% of incarcerated people classify themselves as "Christian." This should tell us that "fearing punishment" doesn't make a difference, whether it is secular or religious. People only change bad behaviors for good, if they want to change.

Fear tactics don't create sustainable change in humans.

[Rabb Allah]

All religions as of now have at least some concept of divine punishment for immorality and it seems to me that this has worked to a varying degree all until mankind stopped believing in hell. Although there are the religious wars and what not. But on the small scale level it seems to have done something.

Is a just hell better than a just prison?

Couple things: one, if we're talking about a just hell, we can't be talking about any of the religious ones, because an eternity of any kind of punishment isn't just, nor can it be a cure for anything- as you allude to in your thread title- because it's clearly not there to get anyone better. It's there as retribution for not staying in line.

Secondly, does a punishment devised by an entity that assumes power for itself without ever having to earn it, who excludes the possibility of ever being recused or losing any of that power no matter its abuses, who requires no consent in order to govern you, and assumes a worldwide jurisdiction independent of any kind of legal checks and balances, sound just to you? If any person did it, you'd consider that an unacceptable dictatorship; why does whatever form of god get a free pass?

I am talking about a hell where people earn their rightful punishment for. A rightful amount of time. Also God has the right to do anything if it is a demiurge so God has earned his sovereignty rightfully so.

[downbeatplumb]

Morality is different to justice, morality is subjective and is different from person to person and from society to society, my wife can go out unescorted by a male here but in some parts of the world that would get her arrested by the religious police for immorality.

[Rampant.A.I.]

All religions as of now have at least some concept of divine punishment for immorality and it seems to me that this has worked to a varying degree all until mankind stopped believing in hell. Although there are the religious wars and what not. But on the small scale level it seems to have done something.

Is a just hell better than a just prison?

When was this golden age in which a universal belief in hell prevented anyone from doing bad things?