So U think Vegan is healthy?

[KichigaiNeko]

The twenty - thirty year consequences are of particular interest.

Just so poke with #1 son. Convinced him that excessive reliance on soy protein (and ALL it's manifestations) is what killed his father @50. He relied far to heavily on processed foods and 'take-away' products.

What I am advocating is the reduction of soy and sulphites in our diet to avoid thyroid, kidney, pancreas, liver and brain problems in the over 50 group.

[Aractus]

The twenty - thirty year consequences are of particular interest.

Yeah the consequences 20+ years. Note that it took 10 or 11 years for Alex Jamieson to see any negative effects for her - and she certainly knew how to eat well - so for some people adverse health effects take different lengths of time. Can you imagine what she said though that her periods were every 14 days, and that she tried correcting it while staying vegan!

What I do like about her though is that she's evidence that changing your diet can lead to drastic changes in your wellbeing, which is great for overcoming mental health problems, etc, that are caused by a bad diet instead of just relying on the doctor's pills (this is not mutually exclusive of course, but I do like the idea of looking to your diet/lifestyle first when you get depression, anxiety, etc seeing if you can do anything, that's perfectly healthy and has merit).

Just so poke with #1 son. Convinced him that excessive reliance on soy protein (and ALL it's manifestations) is what killed his father @50. He relied far to heavily on processed foods and 'take-away' products.

What I am advocating is the reduction of soy and sulphites in our diet to avoid thyroid, kidney, pancreas, liver and brain problems in the over 50 group.

I don't each much soy products - I would certainly agree though that soy isn't a healthy source for protein. What I would say is that be sceptical about it - studies have proven in Asia that consumption of Soy Milk is associated with better health including reduced risk of cancer; however in Asia most soy consumed is in fact fermented and they rarely consume soy milk, none of the studies took fermented soy into consideration - soy consumption is associated with eating both types in Asia, not one or the other so the evidence that Asians consuming a little bit of Soy Milk but mostly Soy in its fermented form is not evidence that the unfermented forms are healthy, nor is it evidence that the same benefits would apply to westerners.

So until someone actually proves that regularly consuming unfermented Soy is safe for Caucasians and other non-asians, I'd remain very sceptical.

[KichigaiNeko]

Agreed on the soy.

But I am thinking that you are missing a whole plethora of activities that those with mental health issues should be looking at.

I am also thinking that the new member Mark, has some interesting anecdotes to offer. Having said that, I would say that the majority of current 'ailments' that beset otherwise healthy hominids can be aliviated, to a degree, by a change in diet and exercise.

The rest, unfortunately, is down to which genes are switched one and which ones are switched off.

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As for your soy products,
Do you eat any bread?
Same with pasta?
How about frozen meals?

Check your labels and know your additive codes.... soy in unfermented form is everywhere in our food stuffs.

[Aractus]

But I am thinking that you are missing a whole plethora of activities that those with mental health issues should be looking at.

Of course, there's counselling, support groups, medication as well and they all have merit, but it's also true that some mental health problems are caused by diet/lifestyle and vitamin/mineral deficiencies (cholesterol deficiency for instance).

I am also thinking that the new member Mark, has some interesting anecdotes to offer. Having said that, I would say that the majority of current 'ailments' that beset otherwise healthy hominids can be aliviated, to a degree, by a change in diet and exercise.

Yes a change in lifestyle as we say - exchanging bad habits for good ones.

As for your soy products,
Do you eat any bread?
Same with pasta?
How about frozen meals?

Check your labels and know your additive codes.... soy in unfermented form is everywhere in our food stuffs.

I eat bread (wholemeal), yes I know it contains soy but only in a small amount - there's more salt than there is soy, and there's only about 2-3g total of salt in the entire loaf! That amount doesn't worry me, nor does it worry me to occasionally eat Tofu when eating out. I occasionally eat pasta, I don't eat frozen meals.

Anyway, you can get lactose-free dairy now (the lactose is pre-broken into glucose and galactose) so even the lactose-intolerant can drink milk and eat real cheese, butter and icecream!

[KichigaiNeko]

Just wondering Daniel, what is your age again?

The reason I ask is that a strange phenomena has begun here at my house. We are both over 50 and are finding anything with soy products in it to be rather unpalatable. Also noting that meats with sulphites added (read anything from the major supermarkets) is also lacking in flavour.

I make our own bread and with only one and a half teaspoons of sea salt in it. Without the salt it is rather bland. You do need some salt in your diet (red blood cell function et al) and since I do not cook with salt this amount is acceptable.

Have you checked out the additives lists? Interesting reading. I am more convinced that our food shortages are not due solely to production but distribution issues. Hence all the additives.

As a single person living alone, my son relies heavily on pre-made frozen meals. Inexpensive, yes.... healthy choice? Not really. This is the reason I mention them, as I had stated, his father relied heavily on take-away (interstate truck driver) and as you can imagine had untold issues late in his life (if you can call being over 45 late).

[Aractus]

I'm 30.

I make our own bread and with only one and a half teaspoons of sea salt in it.

That's the same amount that is in most fresh bread that you'd get from the bakery (/bakery section in coles and wollies). A tsp is about 5g. Just checked the label on the bread, the sodium content works out to almost exactly 2g of salt in the loaf.

Without the salt it is rather bland. You do need some salt in your diet (red blood cell function et al) and since I do not cook with salt this amount is acceptable.

My aunt loves her salt. She's in her 70's, and she's the one who's gluten intolerant, she loves adding lots of salt to her food. But she also has great blood pressure, so she can get away with it. I doubt she could eat as much salt as she wants, however she can eat quite a bit without it affecting her blood pressure!

Have you checked out the additives lists? Interesting reading. I am more convinced that our food shortages are not due solely to production but distribution issues. Hence all the additives.

I only buy bread that's freshly baked- ie I'll buy the bread either from a bakery or from the bakery section of coles/wollies. Aside from flat "wrap" breads that is, they do contain preservatives, but I eat those occasionally. Usually as veggie-wraps, here's my recipe: onion + carrot + pumpkin, fry in non-stick pan with 1/2 tbsp of olive oil and 1/2 tbsp soy sauce, put fresh avocado + cheese + tomato on wrap, add the cooked veggies and some pepper then toast the wrap to melt the cheese for about 2 minutes. Mmmmm, delicious.

As a single person living alone, my son relies heavily on pre-made frozen meals. Inexpensive, yes.... healthy choice? Not really. This is the reason I mention them, as I had stated, his father relied heavily on take-away (interstate truck driver) and as you can imagine had untold issues late in his life (if you can call being over 45 late).

One of my favourite takaways, which has now been sold to new owners grr, was the one place I could get a schnitzel burger with the lovely chicken meat cooked on the stovetop and not in a deep fryer (nice thick meat as well, not thin and dry tasteless junk that you can get in some places). Everywhere else - every club, every takeaway gives you deep fried schnitzel! So, now I just don't eat schnitzel unless at home.

How old is your son? Truck drivers have little excuse to do with access to healthy foods because they go past plenty of bakery-cafe's and late-night "diners" which can serve them plenty of healthy options, not to mention they can keep fresh fruit in the truck at all times if they want to have something to snack on - you can get fresh fruit from any 7-11 and most servos too. Even the 24/7 Mcdonalds serve healthy options. In fact I was at the 7-11 filling up earlier today and the guy gave me an apple that I guess was looking ready to be thrown out (nothing wrong with it though). The problem, though, could be that because no one sees you in your truck on your route you can eat whatever you want all the time and not have to worry about anyone saying "should you really be eating that pie?"

I also know for a fact that most cafes will make the food the way you want it (and the one's that won't probably aren't worth eating at anyway). Hell, there are people that want their coffees served at 80 degrees and they get catered to! Just because the "big breakfast" comes a certain way doesn't mean you can't have them do it how you want it. It comes as a standard way because that's what most customers want - pretty simple logic really!

Your son though also has the option to buy, say, a cooked chicken and then make salad or cook veggies and reheat the chicken (or have it cold however you want) that takes little to no effort. You can even buy pre-made salad and then just add some vinegar + oil as dressing (or readymade salad dressing). He could also buy a roll of corned beef, cook it and then keep it in the fridge until you're done with it. I love corned beef - I don't eat it much though. He can make vegetable stir fries that will keep for maybe up to a week in the fridge, and simply add the meat when he's ready to eat each serving. He sounds lazy, lol!

[bennyboy]

I don't each much soy products - I would certainly agree though that soy isn't a healthy source for protein. What I would say is that be sceptical about it - studies have proven in Asia that consumption of Soy Milk is associated with better health including reduced risk of cancer; however in Asia most soy consumed is in fact fermented and they rarely consume soy milk, none of the studies took fermented soy into consideration - soy consumption is associated with eating both types in Asia, not one or the other so the evidence that Asians consuming a little bit of Soy Milk but mostly Soy in its fermented form is not evidence that the unfermented forms are healthy, nor is it evidence that the same benefits would apply to westerners.

In Korea, tofu is definitely a staple, served with almost every meal. I'd bet my bottom dollar that kimchi+tofu+rice = all necessary nutrients, and the right balance between carbs/protein/fat. However, soy milk is also very popular. There are specific lines and brands aimed at all the different ages of children, starting right at a couple months old.

I don't really know how healthy soy milk is. However, I'm not so sure that high quantities of cow's milk represent an improvement, especially with concerns about hygiene and hormones in mass-production facilities.

[Aractus]

Have you seen the size of Korean people? Not to mention that the average penis size for South Koreans is 3.8" (link) which is at the bottom of the Asian demographic, and Asia as a whole has the smallest compared with the rest of the world!

[KichigaiNeko]

I'm 30.

I make our own bread and with only one and a half teaspoons of sea salt in it.

That's the same amount that is in most fresh bread that you'd get from the bakery (/bakery section in coles and wollies). A tsp is about 5g. Just checked the label on the bread, the sodium content works out to almost exactly 2g of salt in the loaf.

Without the salt it is rather bland. You do need some salt in your diet (red blood cell function et al) and since I do not cook with salt this amount is acceptable.

My aunt loves her salt. She's in her 70's, and she's the one who's gluten intolerant, she loves adding lots of salt to her food. But she also has great blood pressure, so she can get away with it. I doubt she could eat as much salt as she wants, however she can eat quite a bit without it affecting her blood pressure!

Have you checked out the additives lists? Interesting reading. I am more convinced that our food shortages are not due solely to production but distribution issues. Hence all the additives.

I only buy bread that's freshly baked- ie I'll buy the bread either from a bakery or from the bakery section of coles/wollies. Aside from flat "wrap" breads that is, they do contain preservatives, but I eat those occasionally. Usually as veggie-wraps, here's my recipe: onion + carrot + pumpkin, fry in non-stick pan with 1/2 tbsp of olive oil and 1/2 tbsp soy sauce, put fresh avocado + cheese + tomato on wrap, add the cooked veggies and some pepper then toast the wrap to melt the cheese for about 2 minutes. Mmmmm, delicious.

As a single person living alone, my son relies heavily on pre-made frozen meals. Inexpensive, yes.... healthy choice? Not really. This is the reason I mention them, as I had stated, his father relied heavily on take-away (interstate truck driver) and as you can imagine had untold issues late in his life (if you can call being over 45 late).

One of my favourite takaways, which has now been sold to new owners grr, was the one place I could get a schnitzel burger with the lovely chicken meat cooked on the stovetop and not in a deep fryer (nice thick meat as well, not thin and dry tasteless junk that you can get in some places). Everywhere else - every club, every takeaway gives you deep fried schnitzel! So, now I just don't eat schnitzel unless at home.

How old is your son? Truck drivers have little excuse to do with access to healthy foods because they go past plenty of bakery-cafe's and late-night "diners" which can serve them plenty of healthy options, not to mention they can keep fresh fruit in the truck at all times if they want to have something to snack on - you can get fresh fruit from any 7-11 and most servos too. Even the 24/7 Mcdonalds serve healthy options. In fact I was at the 7-11 filling up earlier today and the guy gave me an apple that I guess was looking ready to be thrown out (nothing wrong with it though). The problem, though, could be that because no one sees you in your truck on your route you can eat whatever you want all the time and not have to worry about anyone saying "should you really be eating that pie?"

My "Big Guy" is 24 years. As for his dad? Wel I met him when he was seriously looking at his forties, so the damage was already done. Along with road-training to NT he would find it difficult to stop at said "healthy alternatives" (you don't know much about how shit gets about this country of ours do you?) So roadhouses it is. I would make him a healthy lunch for work and he would give it away and go and get a whole roast chicken and chips! I tried but it depends on the individual.

I also know for a fact that most cafes will make the food the way you want it (and the one's that won't probably aren't worth eating at anyway). Hell, there are people that want their coffees served at 80 degrees and they get catered to! Just because the "big breakfast" comes a certain way doesn't mean you can't have them do it how you want it. It comes as a standard way because that's what most customers want - pretty simple logic really!

Your son though also has the option to buy, say, a cooked chicken and then make salad or cook veggies and reheat the chicken (or have it cold however you want) that takes little to no effort. You can even buy pre-made salad and then just add some vinegar + oil as dressing (or readymade salad dressing). He could also buy a roll of corned beef, cook it and then keep it in the fridge until you're done with it. I love corned beef - I don't eat it much though. He can make vegetable stir fries that will keep for maybe up to a week in the fridge, and simply add the meat when he's ready to eat each serving. He sounds lazy, lol!

This is where we get to the good stuff!

#1 Son is about a month away from getting an absolute dream kitchen and he has the $$$$ to fill it with all the good goobies to make his own good food.

Suffice to say that his fathers death has shaken him to the point of looking after himself.


Just one random thought.... You know how the food industry is always striving to expand it's market into "niche" preferences? Have you even considered that "protein added" might be an attempt to snare the vegan market? At the expense of the omnivore market (a much larger demographic to be certain).

---

Have you seen the size of Korean people? Not to mention that the average penis size for South Koreans is 3.8" (link) which is at the bottom of the Asian demographic, and Asia as a whole has the smallest compared with the rest of the world!

Perhaps another good reason to avoid soy?

Most Asiatic people are this small.

[Aractus]

My "Big Guy" is 24 years. As for his dad? Wel I met him when he was seriously looking at his forties, so the damage was already done. Along with road-training to NT he would find it difficult to stop at said "healthy alternatives" (you don't know much about how shit gets about this country of ours do you?) So roadhouses it is. I would make him a healthy lunch for work and he would give it away and go and get a whole roast chicken and chips! I tried but it depends on the individual.

I never said anything about you Kichi, I just commented on the fact that there are abundant healthy options for truckies - and you were certainly one of them in this case. I am sorry to hear your story, and I mean this with absolutely no ill-will, it is irrational to believe you can change someone.

I know one truckie quite well, he's well into his 60's and very fit, certainly not overweight. He regularly drives to Melbourne and back (granted not the longest trip, but that's what he does). As I mentioned before, if you go and eat a "big breakfast" without having an active lifestyle of course it's going to add to your weight, but any decent cafe will serve you what you want - if you ask for no sausages and a healthier side, then that's what they'll do.

This is where we get to the good stuff!

#1 Son is about a month away from getting an absolute dream kitchen and he has the $$$$ to fill it with all the good goobies to make his own good food.

Suffice to say that his fathers death has shaken him to the point of looking after himself.

Good to hear, my kitchen isn't great - well the oven isn't great and so I mostly use the stove-top (and microwave for reheating). However, and I say this with no ill will intended, even with an ordinary kitchen you can still cook whatever you want!

Just one random thought.... You know how the food industry is always striving to expand it's market into "niche" preferences? Have you even considered that "protein added" might be an attempt to snare the vegan market? At the expense of the omnivore market (a much larger demographic to be certain).

The protein foods I believe are mostly marketed towards gym-addicts, bodybuilders and athletes. I would agree that vegans might look to this as a source, however they are also wanting purely vegan-sourced protein and so the they'd be a niche within a niche. If I want more protein, I'll just eat some more eggs lol.

---

Have you seen the size of Korean people? Not to mention that the average penis size for South Koreans is 3.8" (link) which is at the bottom of the Asian demographic, and Asia as a whole has the smallest compared with the rest of the world!

Perhaps another good reason to avoid soy?

Most Asiatic people are this small.

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Yes my comment was certainly intended as tongue in cheek; although I'm pleased to hear Zen doesn't dissatisfy you there!