The US should not intervene in Ukraine!

[Anomalocaris]

Why don't you die for Ukraine first?

what is that supposed to mean ? whats ur point ?

Those who champion for war ought to be those who are most liable for the consequences of the war. Otherwise championing for war is nothing but a scam.

[sven]

If it becomes a hot conflict, what do you propose?

Fuck your mindless fear – give solutions!

If not, you're just bitching with no plan.

If that happens, there really isn't much I can do. Sweden isn't a member of NATO, and we have no way of influencing Russia. I wouldn't exactly say that Sweden and Russia are enemies, but there has been a lot of worried talk and people want us to beef up our armed forces again because of Putin's attitude and politics.
What would you expect me to propose? If it becomes a hot war, proposals are useless. War nowadays is really a no-win, as the US have experienced during the last decade and a half. All you end up with is a lot of dead civilians (and soldiers) and a political situation that is as bad or worse than before.
The only thing I can propose is that NATO should try to keep their involvement to an absolute minimum, so that it doesn't escalate into what could possibly become a new world war.

[Marsellus Wallace]

what is that supposed to mean ? whats ur point ?

Those who champion for war ought to be those who are most liable for the consequences of the war. Otherwise championing for war is nothing but a scam.

I'm not championing for war, war is a just another popcorn movie for me , I don't really care, but I'd like to watch a serious war happening , cuz i'm sick and evil and I won't go to war to die for the stupid ukraine, cuz i'm a hypocrite .

I hope that answer satisfy you from the inner cores of your very righteous mind .

[Anomalocaris]

I am not satisfied. I would like to see you die in an entertaining way in a war.

[Nine]

It all depends on what Russia ends up doing. The wild card I see at the moment is the Russian protesters all streaming across the border. If they push Ukraine into using force then Russia might see that as their excuse to march in their military.

After that NATO and Europe have a choice to allow Russia to do what they want, move in right next door and the Russians learn that NATO are bluffing and too scared to actually do anything. Or they can choose to side with Ukraine and who knows what happens next.. I think Putin is bluffing, he knows that war is a toxic issue in the west now. Meanwhile he can grab what he likes (Crimea) and make himself look good in front of his people by being in control of the situation.

What I actually see happening is NATO and Russia will make scary faces at each other, call each other a few names. Then in 6 months to a year this will be just forgotten. Just like when North Korea has its little tantrums and starts threatening everyone.

[Anomalocaris]

I think the US, sitting as we do behind two oceans and immune to invasion, and free from the perpetual terriitorial chess games that determine secuity, like to think of the world in terms of airy prinicples and ideologies. We have really no idea what is going on in Russia, Ukraine, nor the private thoughts of new NATO members.

I think what Russia did was perfectly rational, considered, and predictable. The only surprise is it took so long in coming and didn't happen in 2003. To Russia, letting Ukraine go was tantemount to kissing goodbye, probably forever, any status as a major power. It's not a matter of ideology. It is a matter of whether Russia would want to continue to be a major independent power with considerable say in its own future, or a mere buffer state between NATO and China, sort of like a giant version of Poland.

[FlyingNarwhal]

I'm somewhat suspicious of the news I get here in the U.S. Every single time one war ends, another one starts up. I thinking I'm being pulled more and more to the side of conspiracy theorists. I can't help but be reminded of the fact that when we go to war, we borrow A LOT of money at interest from the banks which hold a strong grip on our government. Plus I don't like the fact that this whole missing flight thing has happened right in the midst of of the Ukraine crisis. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems like some kind of magician's misdirection. According to the news I've gotten from the mainstream sources, there was that vote that Crimea held where they chose to secede with more than 90% of the vote. And I've hear that that number is boosted or all out fabricated by Russian propaganda, but I'm not entirely clueless that the U.S. has it's own propaganda machine too. Which makes me wonder if there truly is a desire for the residents of that region to secede, in which case I don't see what the issue is.

I'm also not liking the fact that pro-Russian protestors are being branded as terrorists, it's this generation's buzz word just like communist use to be in the McCarthy era. Again there is conflicting stories, Ukraine is claiming that some of these protestors are holding hostages while the protestors are denying having any hostages at all. The whole thing is really making me very suspicious of the U.S. and the E.U.

[sven]

What I actually see happening is NATO and Russia will make scary faces at each other, call each other a few names. Then in 6 months to a year this will be just forgotten. Just like when North Korea has its little tantrums and starts threatening everyone.

Russia isn't like North Korea at all. Russia is a military (and nuclear) superpower.
Russia did actually annex Crimea, and this is very similar to what Germany did to Austria, the Sudetenland, and so on before WWII broke out. Putin is playing a very dangerous game of chicken with NATO right now, just like Hitler did with the rest of Europe. (I'm not saying that Putin is a new Hitler -- I am saying I think its the same type of gamble)
The threat, as has been mentioned, is that NATO refuses to concede to Russia: 'give them a finger and they'll take the whole hand' as they say.
I saw on the news today that NATO has sharpened its tone toward Russia.
I find it hard to believe that the population of Crimea and Ukraine would like to live under a Russian dictator like Stalin or the Tsars of old Russia. That is what Putin is becoming.
Especially Ukraine has suffered terribly under Russian rule in the past. There has to be something bogus about that referendum in Crimea. Its well known that Putin isn't above using agent provocateurs, busing in loads of Russians to demonstrate, and so on.

[orogenicman]

We "won" the last 'cold war'. Is it possible to win another? Would the Russian people honestly risk all out war with the west over Chernobyl-irradiated lands in Ukraine? Would we? What would be the point of that?

[Anomalocaris]

We "won" the last 'cold war'. Is it possible to win another? Would the Russian people honestly risk all out war with the west over Chernobyl-irradiated lands in Ukraine? Would we? What would be the point of that?

Last time we faught an cold war because Russia was powerful enough to present an genuine and credible existential threat to us, and by far the most serious one at that. Furthermore Russia with its internationalist marxist outlook was explicitly gunning for our economic system, which means they were explicitly gunning for the wealth and personal welfare of all those with clout in our society.

Now Russia is much less credible as an existential threat, perhaps no more serious than China. Furthermore they have much stake in protecting the personal wealth and walfare of many with great clout in our society.

So no new cold war, unless we are just stupidly belligenerent for sake of belligerence.