NFL FANS.

[Shaggy]

I'm not arguing he shouldn't have come out or that his coming out isn't a big deal. It obviously is. I hope more guys follow suit more that he's set them up. But the way you're talking is like he's gay, so of he doesn't make it big it's because he's gay. He got drafted low because he's gay. Neither of those are correct.

And yes being gay is a part of him, but you and the media are making it the biggest part of him. People aren't talking about how he can contribute to a team. They're talking about how his teammates will accept him and the media circus he'll cause.

When did I say anything about him kissing his boyfriend, or not doing it to celebrate like straight people or whatever you're trying to say? I was talking about what he'll do on the football field, you're talking about him being gay. Like I said, I'm seeing a football player, you're seeing a gay guy that's playing football. Most people are focusing on the latter.

It's kinda like when tebow was playing. He was a shit player, but he's a Christian so he has to be given a better shot at it than others. I call bullshit.

[SteelCurtain]

This is just the thing, Brian... what I am saying is that his fall in the draft 1) had nothing to do with his sexuality, and 2) wasn't really a fall, per se.

Whether or not you accept it, combine numbers, even though they are only one data point, are very important to a team's evaluation of a player. They matter, plain and simple. Combine numbers aren't the only the only thing teams evaluate a player on, they aren't even the most important thing, but they are significant.

Yes, people have success even if they don't fit the mold for their position. Look at James Harrison. He was not drafted by any team. He was too short for his position. He was a UFA for the Steelers, and actually got cut twice by Pittsburgh and once by Baltimore before he got picked back up and then became Defensive MVP of the league. These things happen, and I hope Michael Sam is one of those guys. But these guys are the exception, not the rule.

Sam got drafted late because he is a tweener. He's not big enough to be a DE, and he's not tall enough nor does he have the coverage skills to be an OLB. He got drafted late because his combine numbers weren't just low, they were BAD. 17 reps on the bench? I can do that. He's got a great motor, and his leadership skills will be an asset to any locker room he's in. He will have to fight to make a roster spot, but I am confident that if he doesn't make it, it won't be because he's gay.

[Cato]

Brian, you are starting to sound like those Atheism+ assholes. Your argument is fucked and I'll demonstrate why.

Where exactly would Sam have to have been drafted for the NFL and society in general to prove to you that his draft position wasn't influenced by his sexuality? #69, #11, #1? Who gets to decide? You?

Like you I would love to live in a society where his sexuality didn't mean anything. That way he could be picked in the seventh round commensurate with his abilities without idiots screaming oppression. Instead of celebrating a significant moment in societal change, an openly gay man gets drafted into the NFL, you and your ilk run around screaming "that's not good enough".

Let's do this...

Let's find out who in the NFL likes to suck a dick. All those dudes should be immediately enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Would that satisfy you?

[SteelCurtain]

Here's how Andrew Sullivan describes it: "Football, masculinity, race, and love collide together – in a few, too-human moments that defy any words. It's a new world."

I am very happy for Michael Sam.

---

On a completely different note, I am HAPPY that this guy didn't get drafted.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...t-drafted/

[Brian37]

Brian, you are starting to sound like those Atheism+ assholes. Your argument is fucked and I'll demonstrate why.

Where exactly would Sam have to have been drafted for the NFL and society in general to prove to you that his draft position wasn't influenced by his sexuality? #69, #11, #1? Who gets to decide? You?

Like you I would love to live in a society where his sexuality didn't mean anything. That way he could be picked in the seventh round commensurate with his abilities without idiots screaming oppression. Instead of celebrating a significant moment in societal change, an openly gay man gets drafted into the NFL, you and your ilk run around screaming "that's not good enough".

Let's do this...

Let's find out who in the NFL likes to suck a dick. All those dudes should be immediately enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Would that satisfy you?

Who the fuck is claiming that?

Holly fucking shit. The same stupid arguments were used when blacks first broke into pro sports. The same stupid arguments were used to justify banning interracial marriage.

Do you flip out when you see heterosexuals kissing in public? Should we ask every player if they like eating pussy as a litmus test to get into the Hall Of Fame? No? So don't set up a double standard yourself.

He wasn't open to make a circus or novelty about his sexuality. He is open because he wants the same rights as anyone else. Only a fool would think he has the same rights at this point in history.

[Shaggy]

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here.

[Brian37]

My point is that I find it very odd that because I found this "first" exciting for Michael and for gays in general, that somehow he was making a show of it or that my support of this "first" is somehow making a show of it.

Place blame on the homophobes, not him and not supporters of gays.

[SteelCurtain]

But you started off this thread asking why Michael Sam wasn't drafted in the first round. All we were saying is that he was never supposed to be. And that it seemed like the only reason you thought he should be drafted miles ahead of where he should be is because he is gay, or at the very least that the reason he wasn't drafted in the 1st round was because he is gay.

I was simply saying that his talent level is not commensurate with a first round pick, nor even day 2. His story was made big, and rightly so, because he came out after the season, and he was slated to be drafted. We heard a lot about him, we saw a lot of highlight reels, we heard about his accolades---but no one ever said he was 1st round material. You suggested that he was, and that people were discriminating against him. You also are creating a controversy where there is none. You are damning homophobes when nothing has even happened! No one has discriminated Michael Sam, and no one has insinuated that anything is his fault.

This is where we were suggesting that you were making a show of it. You are sensationalizing a non-story. He was never supposed to be a high draft pick, you called homophobia when he wasn't picked in the first round. I suggested that if anyone didn't draft him because of anything non-sports related, it may be that they don't want the media attention that is for sure coming with Michael Sam. That is a legitimate concern, and has nothing to do with homophobia. You suggested that I was blaming Michael Sam---that's clearly not the case.

[Brian37]

Non story? Holy crap. Ok, I forgot every team has several gay players now.

[SteelCurtain]

Clearly, the non-story I was talking about was the one you were making about him not getting drafted in the first round.

His story was made big, and rightly so, because he came out after the season, and he was slated to be drafted. We heard a lot about him, we saw a lot of highlight reels, we heard about his accolades---but no one ever said he was 1st round material.