Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 23, 2024, 7:36 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
“Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
#1
“Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
Many contemporary scientists believe that universe came into being about 15 billion years ago. Despite of this fact, a clear majority of scientists in today’s world agree that universe has a beginning.

At the beginning of 20th century, scientists believed that the universe has always existed and matter-energy had always been around. That was, “The Steady-State Model.” In the last hundred years, the counter evidences have blown that model away.

1. The first evidence for the beginning of universe is its expanding process. Edwin Hubble discovered this phenomenon in 1929.

2. The second is “The Cosmic Background Radiation”. This discovery had given a fatal blow on those who want to believe in an eternal universe.

3. Third is the relative abundance of light elements in the known universe.

If the universe has a beginning then it should has a cause and that cause should be immaterial and beyond space and time. There are only two things, which can fit to explain this cause.

a. Abstract objects and
b. Embodied mind.

The problem with the abstract objects is that they are causally effete, meaning, they cannot cause anything. The laws of nature (including entire mathematics) are abstract concepts and they cannot produce any event. The rules of arithmetic state the Pattern to which all transactions with money must confirm, if only you can get hold of any money. Consequently, in one sense, the laws of nature are existent only because there exist a physical universe.

To think the laws can produce, it is like thinking that you can create real money by simply doing sums. As said by Hawkins, “it is the laws of physics, not the will of God, that provide real explanation to how the universe came into being. The big bang,” he argues, “was the inevitable consequence of these laws.”

Does that lead to the concept, if the law says; gravity controls the motion of earth around the sun so is it the gravity that endeavoured the creation of sun or other celestial objects or is it other way round. Law is descriptive and predictive but not creative. It is even worse as laws of physics cannot even cause anything to happen. It is logically impossible for a cause to bring about some effect without already being into existence.

Nonsense remains nonsense even when talked by world famous scientists.

“Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.”
Stephen Hawking.

One of the outdated philosophical clichés, “who created God?” is an oblivious platitude because if there is no cause which is uncaused there simply be no existence.

Laws of physics are extremely precise to enable complex life to exist. It is exceptionally unlikely that this precision could have happened by chance. If we analyse different levels of structures in the universe then we have:

Quarks at the first level that make up the atoms
Atoms build up to make molecules
Molecules build up to make a living cell
The cells make organisms, and eventually, we end up with brains and consciousness

It is rather hard to estimate what the probability is, but it is clearly very, very unlikely that those fine tunings, which allowed this Pyramid of complexities to arise, would be there as consequence of chance.

As we look at the details of nature, one thing stands out:
This is the order, the pattern, and the symmetry. Everything in the universe has a mathematically precise structure.

As one example, consider Double helix of DNA in living beings. Try to assess how likely is it that we find a protein by chance with all the amino acids in that Pre-biotic soup interacting with each other for, say, billions of years?

“Welcome Collection” in London has a unique publication. This publication is 100 volumes long each with thousands of pages and text so small that it is barely legible. Together, these books represents only a single human genome. Only four chemicals or letters made this Genome, 3.2 billion of them. A disorder of only one letter in the sequence leads to serious illness in the living being.

Question is how common or how rare are the functional sequences of amino acids among the big space of all possible amino acids there are?

Nobel laureate, organic chemist and a leader in origin of life studies, Professor deDuve writes in his excellent book, Tour of a Living Cell,

"If you equate the probability of the birth of a bacteria cell to chance assembly of its atoms, eternity will not suffice to produce one...”

Humans and all mammals have some 50,000 genes. That implies, as an order of magnitude estimate, some 50,000 to 100,000 proteins active in mammalian bodies. There are some 30 animal phyla on Earth by estimation. If the genomes of each animal phylum produced 100,000 proteins, and no proteins were common among any of the phyla (a fact we know to be false, but an assumption that makes our calculations favor the random evolutionary assumption), there would be (30 x 100,000) 3 million proteins in all life. Now let us consider the likelihood of these 3 million viable combinations of proteins forming by chance: Proteins are complex coils of several hundred amino acids. Take a typical protein to be a chain of 200 amino acids. The observed range is from less than 100 amino acids per protein to greater than 1000. Twenty commonly occurring amino acids join in varying combinations to produce the proteins of life. This means that the number of possible combinations of the amino acids in our model protein of 200 amino acids is 20 to the power of 200 (i.e. 20 multiplied by itself 200 times), or in the more usual 10-based system of numbers, approximately 10 to the power of 260 (i.e. the number one, followed by 260 zeros!). Nature has the option of choosing among the 10 to power of 260 possible proteins, the 3 million proteins of which all viable life is composed. In other words, for each one correct choice, there are 10 to power of 254 wrong choices! Randomness cannot have been the driving force behind the success of life. Our understanding of statistics and molecular biology clearly supports the notion that there must have been a direction and a “Director” behind the success of life.

No serious scientist think that life is a matter of chance.

Some modern Darwinists defend their case by asserting that about 98 percent of our DNA is similar to that of apes and that this difference is only a few spelling mistakes. Other say, more accurate figure is no more than 95 percent. However, considering that humans have three billion DNA information in each cell, even two per cent difference is actually sixty million spelling errors. Of course, this is not error, but 2,500 pages worth of new information. After all, we do share about 50 percent of our DNA with bananas, but that doesn’t mean that we are half banana.

Entire present-day science is based on the inductive reasoning. Using the same inductive reasoning, “one can compare the information stored in DNA molecule to a software program code only much more complex.”
Bill Gates.

We know information comes only from intelligent source. When we see coded information in a DNA, the most logical thing to conclude, that too, has an intelligent source.

“… If you look at the details of biochemistry and molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer. And that designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe.”
Richard Dawkins
The R. Dawkins Foundation
R. Dawkins Answers Questions


And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.
Ar Ruum (30)
-Verse 22-
Quran


And in the earth are neighbouring tracts, and gardens of vines, and green crops (fields etc.), and date-palms, growing out two or three from a single stem root, or otherwise (one stem root for every palm ), watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Verily, in these things, there are Ayat (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs) for the people who understand.
Ar Ra'd (13)
-Verse 4-
Quran


And He shows you (always) His Signs: then which of the Signs of Allah will ye deny?
Al Mu'min (40)
-Verse 81-
Quran


Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
Al 'Ankabuut (29)
-Verse 49-
Quran
Reply
#2
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
[Image: Yawn.jpg]
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply
#3
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
TL : DR, but fixed your quote mine.

Ben Stein Wrote:What do think is the possibility that intelligent design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics, or in evolution?
Richard Dawkins Wrote:Well, it could come about in the following way: it could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved by probably some kind of Darwinian means to a very, very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto, perhaps, this planet. Now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of our chemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer, and that designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe. But that higher intelligence would itself have had to come about by some explicable, or ultimately explicable, process. It couldn't have just jumped into existence spontaneously. That's the point.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Reply
#4
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
Let's see...we have false dichotomy, argument from incredulity, quote mining, misunderstanding probability, and a failure to understand the implications of time not existing on the principle of cause and effect.

Did I miss anything?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Reply
#5
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
"Every effect must have a cause, therefore, there must be an effect which has no cause."

The number of times I have restated this sentence in different threads over the last week alone (I'm pretty sure this is #4) should indicate to you how painfully trite and derivative that whole word vomit salad was. You should find a better use of your time.

Oh, also "Intelligence couldn't have come from nothing, therefore it must be the creation of an intelligence that came from nothing" is an equally-stupid assertion.
Reply
#6
“Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
(May 10, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Let's see...we have false dichotomy, argument from incredulity, quote mining, misunderstanding probability, and a failure to understand the implications of time not existing on the principle of cause and effect.

Did I miss anything?

Not really, other then the author erroneously believes intelligence is unique to humans, yet also erroneously believes no one is going to be able to tell when he's quote mining and rehashing the same argument from incredulity crap we've already heard before.
Reply
#7
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
[Image: tldr-theatre1.jpg?w=652]
Reply
#8
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
So many fallacies, so little time.

"You shall not pass!" - Gandalf, Lord of the Rings.

See I can quote books of fantasy, too.

And, seriously, if you're going to start referring to Ben Stein you demonstrate the desperation of your argument.

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
Reply
#9
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
This post lends further support to Esquilax' contention that people who don't accept evolution do so because they don't understand what evolution is. This Q'rannic dimwit has equated 'evolution' with 'chance' at least a dozen times in his dishonest, misleading, and wronger-than-wrong post.

For the 12th skajillionth time: Evolution is NOT a random process.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Reply
#10
RE: “Intelligence,” OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!
Very nice. Good job.
Do you have any new or interesting ideas you'd like to present?
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Machine Intelligence and Human Ethics BrianSoddingBoru4 24 2864 May 28, 2019 at 1:23 pm
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  If a supernatural intelligence did create the universe..... maestroanth 12 2391 April 20, 2016 at 8:36 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  What is the best theory for what intelligence is? DespondentFishdeathMasochismo 30 6537 December 7, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Intelligence test Knight000 98 17000 September 14, 2015 at 4:19 am
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  The pursuit of pleasure vs the pursuit of intelligence MattMVS7 11 3135 October 8, 2014 at 6:04 am
Last Post: Violet
  Does it make sense to speak of "Universal Consciousness" or "Universal Intelligence"? Mudhammam 253 53631 June 8, 2014 at 12:04 pm
Last Post: Mudhammam
  Nothingness Harris 284 97208 May 27, 2013 at 5:13 am
Last Post: little_monkey



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)