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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 9:35 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2014 at 9:36 pm by Ksa.)
(June 4, 2014 at 9:32 pm)Irrational Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:23 pm)Lek Wrote: Sounds like you have no idea what's beyond the edge of the universe either. By the way, I think God is beyond the edge of the universe.
Why should there be a God beyond the edge of the universe? And why should the ultimate universe have an edge to it?
Centuries ago, God was beyond the sky, when they discovered planets, then, God was beyond the planets. Now we know our Universe well and they say God is beyond the Universe. I guess they keep pushing God further down the asshole every time we discover something lol. Soon God will be so deep into shit no one will notice him.
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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 9:38 pm
(June 4, 2014 at 9:30 pm)Irrational Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:23 pm)Lek Wrote: If you say that the existence of a creator is unreasonable, then you are saying that a universe with no beginning is the only reasonable explanation for the existence of the universe.
No, it only implies that the Creator postulation is not necessary as an explanation. If it's an unnecessary explanation, then what's so reasonable about it?
To someone who won't accept the existence of the supernatural, it makes no sense. Also a universe that was not created is not necessary as an explanation either. It's just one of many possibilities. You just rule out the supernatural out of hand even though people have testified to it throughout history - educated and sophisticated people by the way, including top scientists.
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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 9:40 pm
(June 4, 2014 at 9:38 pm)Lek Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:30 pm)Irrational Wrote: No, it only implies that the Creator postulation is not necessary as an explanation. If it's an unnecessary explanation, then what's so reasonable about it?
To someone who won't accept the existence of the supernatural, it makes no sense. Also a universe that was not created is not necessary as an explanation either. It's just one of many possibilities. You just rule out the supernatural out of hand even though people have testified to it throughout history - educated and sophisticated people by the way, including top scientists.
No, I accept, it's ok, don't get mad. What does the Bible say about what's beyond the edge of the universe?
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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 9:42 pm
(June 4, 2014 at 9:38 pm)Lek Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:30 pm)Irrational Wrote: No, it only implies that the Creator postulation is not necessary as an explanation. If it's an unnecessary explanation, then what's so reasonable about it?
To someone who won't accept the existence of the supernatural, it makes no sense. Also a universe that was not created is not necessary as an explanation either. It's just one of many possibilities. You just rule out the supernatural out of hand even though people have testified to it throughout history - educated and sophisticated people by the way, including top scientists.
Never argued that an uncaused universe is a necessary explanation for its existence, only that there's no sound reason to argue that it's not uncaused.
Whether or not I accept supernatural explanations has nothing to do with the point I'm making here. Also, try to avoid appeal to authority when necessary as it proves nothing in this case.
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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 9:46 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2014 at 9:50 pm by Lek.)
(June 4, 2014 at 9:32 pm)Irrational Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:23 pm)Lek Wrote: Sounds like you have no idea what's beyond the edge of the universe either. By the way, I think God is beyond the edge of the universe.
Why should there be a God beyond the edge of the universe? And why should the ultimate universe have an edge to it?
If the universe has no edge or end to it, then it shares another attribute with God. It's infinite. Sounds a bit supernatural to me.
(June 4, 2014 at 9:40 pm)Ksa Wrote: No, I accept, it's ok, don't get mad. What does the Bible say about what's beyond the edge of the universe?
The bible doesn't say specifically what is beyond the edge of the universe. It speaks of God as being omnipresent and heaven as being beyond the earthly realm. When It speaks of the earthly realm, I interpret it as being beyond natural existence.
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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 9:52 pm
(June 4, 2014 at 9:46 pm)Lek Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:32 pm)Irrational Wrote: Why should there be a God beyond the edge of the universe? And why should the ultimate universe have an edge to it?
If the universe has no edge or end to it, then it shares another attribute with God. It's infinite. Sounds a bit supernatural to me.
(June 4, 2014 at 9:40 pm)Ksa Wrote: No, I accept, it's ok, don't get mad. What does the Bible say about what's beyond the edge of the universe?
The bible doesn't say specifically what is beyond the edge of the universe. It speaks of God as being omnipresent and heaven as being beyond the earthly realm. When It speaks of the earthly realm, I interpret it as being beyond natural existence.
Where is this mentioned in the Bible that God is infinite?
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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 10:00 pm
(June 4, 2014 at 9:46 pm)Lek Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:32 pm)Irrational Wrote: Why should there be a God beyond the edge of the universe? And why should the ultimate universe have an edge to it?
If the universe has no edge or end to it, then it shares another attribute with God. It's infinite. Sounds a bit supernatural to me.
Supernatural is a very distracting word. So what if you see it as "supernatural"? The point is we have no reason to believe something as grand and mystifying as the universe has to be caused. Whatever properties apply to us do not have to apply to the universe.
With that said, why should there be a God anywhere if the universe could have possibly been uncaused?
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New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 10:06 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2014 at 10:12 pm by Rampant.A.I..)
(June 4, 2014 at 9:23 pm)Lek Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:10 pm)Irrational Wrote: Well, I wonder if God (if he were to exist) must be limitless.
Either way, because the possibility of an ultimate uncaused universe has not yet been reasonably ruled out, then the necessity of God's existence is not reasonable. If you say that the existence of a creator is unreasonable, then you are saying that a universe with no beginning is the only reasonable explanation for the existence of the universe.
You theists always want to frame nontheistic arguments this way, to make a ridiculous conclusion appear less ridiculous.
Even when people correct you with Big Bang theory, you still go right back to "you said it must be logically eternal."
No, that's your side. Stop it.
(June 4, 2014 at 9:23 pm)Lek Wrote: (June 4, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Ksa Wrote: Beyond the edge of the universe, well, what's beyond the edge of a tree? Atmosphere...and then? Other trees. What's beyond the edge of our planet? Space...and then? Other planets. What's beyond the edge of our galaxy? Space...and then? Other galaxies.
Coming to your question, what's beyond the edge of our universe? You give me the answer.
To help you, what's beyond the edge of an orgasm? A break. And beyond it? More orgasms. You see, everything in existence works the same. If you don't understand something big, look at something small. It works in the exact same way but you just can't calculate their properties the same, so no unified theory, but do you really need to? Why would a tree behave like a galaxy? It doesn't. Because a tree isn't a galaxy. So why would anyone try to apply the same equation for both. It is stupidity. Sounds like you have no idea what's beyond the edge of the universe either. By the way, I think God is beyond the edge of the universe.
How does that make sense? The universe is inside God? What plane is God occupying? Transcendence does not make logical shrugs like this any less nonsensical.
An state prior to the universe causing expansion, or even an eternal Big Bang, Big Crunch" makes more sense than attempting to speculate what, if anything, lies beyond the universe.
"A cause," even an eternal cause or infinite chain of events does not = "The Christian God," and never will.
Furthermore, "events have causes the Big Bang was an event, therefore the Big Bang had a cause" does not come close to all of the logical gymnastics required to reach The Christian God.
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RE: New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 10:14 pm
Still waiting for Lek to answer my question lol.
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New Athiest Needs Help
June 4, 2014 at 10:18 pm
While you wait, check out these wacky ideas of what's beyond the universe:
http://io9.com/5799335/five-weird-theori...e-universe
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