Something to tell a creationist.

[Samson]

Rev. Rye I had never head of the ULC before so thank you for some new venues. I will get to you samson when I have more then 2 minutes

Take your time, I feel your pain..lol...

[tackattack]

Thanks for the bump I don't have a lot of time lately and couldn't find it.

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1. Timothy is about being in slavery and how to treat your unbelieving masters. That is not a condoning of slavery, jsut an acceptance that it was the then state of things.

1 Timothy 6
1(A)All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so (B)that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against.

2Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are ©brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved (D)Teach and preach these principles.

3If anyone (E)advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with (F)sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine (G)conforming to godliness,

You can still be in "Gods" good grace, just so as long as you are a believer regardless that you own and can whip/beat your slaves..(Of course just so long as you do not kill them).. I'm sorry, but they had the means even back then to view slavery as an immoral act.
Yes, slavery in some societies were a bit different from what we had a couple of centuries ago in the U.S., but it was still considered slavery in terms...And regardless that this was the way things were done back then, I still see no morality in this.

2. In Ephesians perhaps too much focus is being given to "like slaves of christ" (which is a comparison) and states how you should act if you are a slave or a master.

5(E)Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with (F)fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, (G)as to Christ;

Treat your masters as you would Christ...

I agree that Jesus never preached against slavery. I think slavery has a heavy connotation in america of physical subjugation and enslavement. While he does use parables, examples and similarities with (then) current themes. Slavery, I'm sure was seen in an entirely different light then than today.

Not all regarded slavery as a "Good Thing" before their time and even after.. I do agree that it was a bit different then in comparison to now, but when the "Bible" is held by so many to be this perfect composition of morality, this needs to be brought up....

I think focusing on slavery in the teachings of Jesus is bickering over a perspective in history we have no reference for. IMO He's not saying be a good slave and master. He's saying if you are a slave/master be a good one because we're all accountable to God. Arguing that Jesus didn't preach against slavery means he condoned it has got to be some kind of fallacy, but I'm not farmiliar with the constructs of those. Help on fallacies any1?

"Jesus" throughout the Bible (NT) preached for and against many things, but Slavery was not one of them, and for that reason, is the reason it's brought up so many times.

3. "But tell that to the 45% plus here in the U.S. and especially the 99% in the South that take Revelation on it's every word" .. I do every chance I get. Luckily I have the chance to teach children about Jesus and God.

Which "Interpretation" do you teach them? Out of 38,000 branches of the Christian Sect, one's "Opinion" holds a lot of weight on Children and ignorance...

Maybe Jesus was a time traveling future man with oooooo technology for all those miracles. We'll never know until those scientists create that time machine.

I L Ron Hubbard wrote that down somewhere while pondering Scientology LOLOL...

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1. Slavery- Look at all of Timothy if you're going to analyze it. 1 Timothy 1:8-11
8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law[a] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
He was telling followers how to teach those that are not of the righteous who understand the will of God through parable and example. He actally doesn't condone slavery and compares it to adulterers and perverts. I think in the slavery passages he's acknowledging that some believers do have slaves (which is assumed they treat more like endentured servants) but the whole of God's message to timothy is about getting those poeple who don't believe or have steered far from the path back on the path. Reread it in it's entirety and I don't see how you can claim that the followers of Jesus condoned whipping your slaves.

2. For the record I do not see morality in slavery as well and I don't see the Bible "to be this perfect composition of morality". Getting your morality solely from a book is assinine.

3. I don't teach the children an interpretaion of the bible, but how to interpret things they believe. I share the doctrines of different faiths with a focus on the doctrines of Non-denominational Christianity First Church of God, Anderson branch. I give them tools from reason, logic and scripture to understand the world they live in. My job is to prepare them for the realities of the real world and that they have to live in it, but that they can be free-independant thinkers and decide for themselves who are right. The youth are much more in detail than the secondary classes I usually teach.

[Samson]

Thanks for the reply back.....

1. I did read Timothy and in no way did I understand it to be condoning of slavery in whipping and beating etc. .(I was simply using the beating and whipping terms as it has been tossed around so many times throughout the Bible)...It's not a big secret that rules where made up for slave owners, just as they were for the slaves themselves...

Also, it never mentions "Slave Traders" as part of the sinful and unrighteous...

I checked King James Version and American Standard... .This is what is states..

8But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

9realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

10and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,


So no... Slave traders were not part of the sinning folk....

Just as I stated earlier... Jesus may not have came out and said he was condoning it/for it etc. but when "Jesus" was so very blunt with "Everything" else, ownership of another human being seemed to fall of the radar for any type of immoral act.

2. For the record I do not see morality in slavery as well and I don't see the Bible "to be this perfect composition of morality". Getting your morality solely from a book is assinine.

You may not see the Bible as a perfect composition of morality...but the masses do.....(But it's good to know you have a head on your shoulders..lol)

3. I don't teach the children an interpretaion of the bible, but how to interpret things they believe. I share the doctrines of different faiths with a focus on the doctrines of Non-denominational Christianity First Church of God, Anderson branch. I give them tools from reason, logic and scripture to understand the world they live in. My job is to prepare them for the realities of the real world and that they have to live in it,but that they can be free-independant thinkers and decide for themselves who are right. The youth are much more in detail than the secondary classes I usually teach.

I'm not able to comment on the FCG....I'm not familiar with that branch...

I'm also not saying you are a bad person, but I will say that anyone who uses the Bible to "Try" and teach morality should look for another source.....

As far as what I put in bold from your text...I have a question for you;

Do you believe in the Biblical version of "Hell" and if so, is this part your reality that is taught...The masses believe it is...I'm just curious if you believe the same..?



P.S. I just went back and looked up a few more "Bible Versions" besides the King James and American Standard... I see the New International Version has the Slave trader put in..... Now that's interesting, considering King James and before did not have it in place.... Just another wonderful add in/mistranslation/interpretation...which was part of my point on having 38,000 branches of the Christian Faith.....