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Always something new to learn
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Not only is there a religious view of faith as well as a secular view of the same word, but there is also a religious view of free will as well as a secular view.
I have learned the latter, how many of you fellow atheists can claim the same before I deliver it to you?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter  RE: Always something new to learn
July 8, 2016 at 3:36 am
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2016 at 3:38 am by Alex K.)
There isn't even a unique secular view / definition of free will, so it's not too surprising that there might be distinct religiously motivated ones. But do enlighten us, you can put it in spoiler tags if you want
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
RE: Always something new to learn
July 8, 2016 at 3:38 am
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2016 at 3:41 am by Foxaèr.)
Free will is the veritable free will to do what one wishes.
If that is not clear enough, I cannot make it any clearer. Free will is merely the will to choose freely.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter RE: Always something new to learn
July 8, 2016 at 3:45 am
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2016 at 3:46 am by Alex K.)
(July 8, 2016 at 3:38 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Free will is the veritable free will to do what one wishes. That's ok - but you could make an effort to let your cryptic replies sound even more pompous and condescending. I'm not quite sure whether your lowly readers really know their place if you're this generous. 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
(July 8, 2016 at 3:45 am)Alex K Wrote: That's ok - but you could make an effort to let your cryptic replies sound even more pompous and condescending. I'm not quite sure whether your lowly readers really know their place. I have the free will to either go left or right down the street. That is free will. If I did not have free will to choose the direction in which I could go, then that would mean I had no free will.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter  RE: Always something new to learn
July 8, 2016 at 3:48 am
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2016 at 3:49 am by ignoramus.)
You mean, I can do whatever the fuck I want? Now they tell me! Sheesh...
Here I am aiming properly so as to not wee everywhere like a loser!
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear. RE: Always something new to learn
July 8, 2016 at 3:56 am
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2016 at 3:57 am by Alex K.)
(July 8, 2016 at 3:47 am)Maelstrom Wrote:(July 8, 2016 at 3:45 am)Alex K Wrote: That's ok - but you could make an effort to let your cryptic replies sound even more pompous and condescending. I'm not quite sure whether your lowly readers really know their place. Ok, fair enough. I'm not saying it's wrong but I have two issues with this - every human is bound to have wishes they cannot act upon due to constraints of nature etc., and wouldn't it trivially follow that no one has free will according to this definition? Secondly, when you look into brain research dealin with how decisions are made, it seems to become clear that there is no real point where the "real you" decides, because "you" is a jumble of different subsystems doing their thing and trying to get the illusion of a consistent mind going. At what point would you say it is "you" who chooses, and when is it just some unconscious part of your brain reacting to the environment. Is that then still you chosing?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
(July 8, 2016 at 3:56 am)Alex K Wrote: every human is bound to have wishes they cannot act upon due to constraints of nature etc. Cannot or will not? (July 8, 2016 at 3:56 am)Alex K Wrote: Secondly, when you look into brain research dealin with how decisions are made, it seems to become clear that there is no real point where the "real you" decides, because "you" is a jumble of different subsystems doing their thing and trying to get the illusion of a consistent mind going. At what point would you say it is "you" who chooses, and when is it just some unconscious part of your brain reacting to the environment. Is that then still you chosing? I very much doubt either of your points discounts free will.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter (July 8, 2016 at 3:59 am)Maelstrom Wrote:First one, then the other?(July 8, 2016 at 3:56 am)Alex K Wrote: every human is bound to have wishes they cannot act upon due to constraints of nature etc. Quote:(July 8, 2016 at 3:56 am)Alex K Wrote: Secondly, when you look into brain research dealin with how decisions are made, it seems to become clear that there is no real point where the "real you" decides, because "you" is a jumble of different subsystems doing their thing and trying to get the illusion of a consistent mind going. At what point would you say it is "you" who chooses, and when is it just some unconscious part of your brain reacting to the environment. Is that then still you chosing? Do you have anything more specific to say about them?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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