Evidence In Exchange

[Esquilax]

Fair enough. I won't post any more threads about what the BIBLE says about your future or what a billion other Christians believe or I won't speak of something I know all of you already heard many times before but are now acting offended about.

Your sarcasm is noted, but not appreciated. In fact, your point about this being what the bible says, and not what you personally want, might come across a little better if you didn't, you know, worship the being that you think is going to do this to us, and believe that his every action is just. I mean, it's kinda hypocritical to say "I don't want this to happen to you!" while agreeing with every premise of the guy causing it to happen. I know it's very easy to shirk the uncomfortable feelings hell must produce by shopping out all those violent revenge fantasies onto a proxy, but I don't take "I didn't do it, it was my imaginary friend!" from my six year old cousin, so why would I take it from a grown-ass adult?

Oh, and I've always been offended about this hell stuff; it's just that at some point you realize that christians refuse to take their own doctrine as seriously as we, hypothetically, will. At that point, you recognize that trying to make them think about an aspect of their own religion is pointless, where that aspect can't be spun into a happy feelgood thing.

Additionally, you'll notice that I have said multiple times that I DON'T want you to suffer in torment. I was attempting to get you to try Jesus instead of nothing. Surprise surprise - a theist wants you to find the love of God. Use your head, theists come with certain beliefs that we are commanded to share. Dur.

It just says a lot about you that, where a lot of preachers would talk about Jesus' love and the benefits of being christian, you decided to go for the reprehensible "believe or burn" tactic. It's not that you have a christian point of view, it's that you decided to try and convince us of it by denigrating the need to support that view, and finished up with a threat.

No, it's not arbitrary. I've explained but I'll explain again for you and Rhythm once again: If it's not DIRECTLY questioning my faith in God, than it's a useful tool. Is it arbitrary? No. Arbitrary implies that I picked whatever whenever. This is very specific of when and where logic and reason are useful.

How do you know it's not directly questioning your faith in god? How do you know, in the world you think you live in where satan can influence your thoughts subtly and undetectably, that there isn't some additional prong of god's will that is being hidden from you? How do you know there aren't true christians who understand that god prefers Sony over Panasonic?

Does Satan want me to buy a certain brand of TV?!? What are you both some kind of idiots?? Why would Satan care what TV I bought? What kind of moron would even consider this bit of stupidity? I'm going to clarify one last time for you. It has to DIRECTLY relate to questions of the existence of God.

And if you think about it, god has some pretty weird opinions in the bible; why would god care about how you cut your beard? Or the kinds of fabrics you wear? If you actually consider what the bible god asks of you, the idea that he'd have a preferred TV brand isn't terribly crazy, it'd just be another in a long line of bizarre commandments the guy has. And scoffing isn't an answer, and so the question still remains: how do you know god doesn't have a specific TV preference, and that satan isn't tricking you into thinking that he doesn't using your logic and reason?

This entire conversation should still be about evidence and the atheists unrelenting demand that it be used to establish Faith. Logic and reason are gifts from the creator and Satan has used them on you to eliminate any desire to seek out the God that made you.

I still haven't heard an argument as to why faith should only be used to justify the christian god, when it can be used to justify any position ever, if we deem it acceptable justification at all.

[GrandizerII]

Yeah I concur with Fidel, if the only thing stopping you from going out and murdering gays is the voice in your head, you need some serious fucking help.

To be fair, it's probably just something he feels he has to say as a fundamentalist Christian. I don't think he means it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Now you're gonna call the man a liar? That's brutal bud, lol.

I believe you, these guys are haters.

[GrandizerII]

Now you're gonna call the man a liar? That's brutal bud, lol.

I believe you, these guys are haters.

Well, it's like when they tell us we're going to hell if we don't accept Christ. Do they really believe we're going to burn forever in hell? Or is it just empty talk they say because they feel obligated to say it as fundies?

[Cyberman]

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Why does that look like an atomic bomb going off?

It... looks like a mushroom cloud.

Technically, it is an atomic explosion, of sorts. A titanic fusion explosion held together by its own gravity. Quite an interesting icon for a supposedly peaceful religion - perhaps it's the subliminal message of "worship the powerful"?

[The Grand Nudger]

Couldn't it be both? I'm just saying, why give em one shot of crazy when you can unload both barrels?

[ThomM]

For Faith?!?!??????

That makes no sense. You just can't seem to get your small minds around the fact that if there was all this evidence you wouldn't need faith. That's the whole point- one must have faith.

The whole idea of believing in something comes from the understanding that there are some things that cannot always be explained. You cannot tell the all powerful creator of the universe that you'll give him your faith if he can first produce evidence. The first negates the need for the latter.

So stop trying to reason you way out of hell and just accept Jesus as your Savior and your God.
Why let your silly pride and your ridiculous ideas keep you in utter torment for all eternity?!

Your lives are meaningless without Christ.

Say this prayer and BE SAVED for all time!!!
"Lord Jesus Christ, I accept you into my heart. Take away my sin and take control of my life. From this day forward I will live to serve you."

Let Jesus come inside you and make you into the beautiful being you were meant to be.
The Holy Spirit will live inside you and guide you your whole life. How fantastic is that?!!?

AMEN Get INSPIRED and accept the hand of Christ. It's waiting for you!

Evidence shmevidence. Ask him into your heart and find out how incredible it is to have the one and only living God as your life long best friend.

Sorry - but YOUR explanation fails to be convincing considering the facts.

Look at the facts of religions on earth

There have been well over 100,000 named gods - and many more different religions - including over 40,000 different version of xtianity.

Given all the possibilities - weigh ALL of the claims of all of the religions equally - because that is what making a decision it about.

There are LOTS of those gods who can be proven to have existed - we have their actual remains - writings - and many other things to prove it. Among them - a long succession of Pharaohs of Egypt - whose DNA sequence proves that there was NO great flood - and no Tower of Babel. WE can prove direct family lineage for over a thousand years. And the language did not change either.

The story of moses leading the israelites our of bondage to egypt is among the stories that are not supported in history. If there were a flood - there would not have been the numbers of people in the world that are claimed at that time first. Second - we have records from egypt that show who was in bondage to them - and it does not include Israelis. And there is NO evidence of a million people wandering the Israeli Desert as well. The earliest known mention of the nation of Israel - is 1207 BCE.

The flood is also disputed by the Great Pyramid - which would have been pulverized by a column of water 50,000 feet high - but shows no water damage at all.

There is NO direct proof that the christ ever lived - there is no mention of him in the historic record of that time - none at all.

WE already KNOW that most of the stories of genesis - including Eden - the great Flood - the Battle of Jericho - and many others - are NOT TRUE.

In the bible - it is said that during his wandering in the desert - the devil took the christ up to a high mountain from which he showed him ALL the kingdoms of the earth - that is IMPOSSIBLE - the earth is a sphere and the most you can see because of the curvature of the earth is about 200 miles - from a height of 50,000 feet. So - there is no mountain from which you could see ALL the kingdoms mentioned in the bible - much less all on earth.

AN intelligent person can easily dismiss the bible as the superstitious beliefs of ancient goat herders and fishermen - but to claim it is true - is Stupidity.

IF a god is all knowing - why would he allow the Holocaust? Explain how the carnage of INFANTS and your children before the age of reason - fit into what YOU expect me to believe - IF the god is ALL knowing and Almighty - it should have prevented this murder

ANd that is the basic problem - it a god "could be" almighty and all knowing - then the god had NO natural enemies that he cannot instantly vanquish - so to claim the "devil" is doing this - only happen if the god ALLOWS it.

So - with ALL of the religious choices - why would you have faith in one that has OBVIOUS flaws. Why have faith in one that the Believers - LIKE you - cannot come up with PROVEN reason why their belief is true?

Why do you even give MONEY to your religion when your supposed god said - give to caesar what is Caesars - and give to God what is Gods?

Then READ 1=Timothy 2 -In the New Testament - where is says that the god will not allow a woman to hold any authority over a man - a woman - because of the sin of EVE - must be silent - and submissive to men - and bear children to be "saved"

Do you believe that?

I don't. So - using logic and reality - and truth - I can eliminate YOUR religion from consideration.

[Napoléon]

Well, it's like when they tell us we're going to hell if we don't accept Christ. Do they really believe we're going to burn forever in hell? Or is it just empty talk they say because they feel obligated to say it as fundies?

Oh no, I think some of them really do mean it. That's why it's such an offensive thing to say. They don't see it that way, they think it's something to say to persuade us to convert, in reality all it says to us is that they think we're that bad and abhorrent that we must be tortured for eternity. That's some next level disdain right there.

[Ravenshire]

2 I don't pretend to understand the will of God.

The fuck you don't. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here telling us your killer gawd is going to roast us in hell.

[Zidneya]