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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 27, 2014 at 11:56 pm
(July 26, 2014 at 12:46 pm)Natachan Wrote: After reading more responses it is clear that:
You do not know what atheism is.
You do not know what science is.
You do not know what evolution is.
I read your quote, which shows a gross misunderstanding of abiogenesis and evolution, which btw are separate things.
If abiogenesis is not the base of evolution, then how you justify the evolution in the first place. In other words, how life originated in first place if it is not spontaneous. Theory of evolution only leads us to believe in the spontaneous emergence of life by not giving appropriate explanation about the birth of first cell of life.
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 27, 2014 at 11:57 pm
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2014 at 12:04 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:All these links have took me to junkyard only. If you are so sure then bring livescientific evidence that apes transformed into humans.
That would be in your blood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_(human)
Anything else?
(go ahead and click on those links to each gene in that sequence btw, see if a narrative develops.....)
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 12:13 am
(July 26, 2014 at 2:43 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Even discounting your ludicrous and pig-headed adamant insistence that atheism is a faith despite being informed repeatedly by those who identify as atheists that it's not - are you conceding that faith is a weak position to adopt?
If Atheism is not a FAITH at all or say LACK of FAITH in God then how your mind adopted the concept that God does not exist. Funny isn’t it?
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 12:14 am
(July 28, 2014 at 12:13 am)Harris Wrote: (July 26, 2014 at 2:43 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Even discounting your ludicrous and pig-headed adamant insistence that atheism is a faith despite being informed repeatedly by those who identify as atheists that it's not - are you conceding that faith is a weak position to adopt?
If Atheism is not a FAITH at all or say LACK of FAITH in God then how your mind adopted the concept that God does not exist. Funny isn’t it?
dafuq?
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 12:19 am
(July 28, 2014 at 12:13 am)Harris Wrote: (July 26, 2014 at 2:43 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Even discounting your ludicrous and pig-headed adamant insistence that atheism is a faith despite being informed repeatedly by those who identify as atheists that it's not - are you conceding that faith is a weak position to adopt?
If Atheism is not a FAITH at all or say LACK of FAITH in God then how your mind adopted the concept that God does not exist. Funny isn’t it?
We get the concept of god not existing from the claim you make that god exists. Its a default position to the claim, you claim god exists, we say we don't believe your claim. Why is this so hard to understand?
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 12:30 am
(July 26, 2014 at 2:45 pm)little_monkey Wrote: There's a difference between "having beliefs" and "having faith". If I believe that the universe can be comprehended it's because there is an overwhelming body of evidence supporting that belief. OTOH, faith is belief in spite of no or insufficient evidence.
If you have faith in someone or something, you feel confident about their ability or goodness even without having any evidence. Belief is something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion. Belief may require, but not necessarily, the evidence.
All this reduces to the fact that without faith, belief has no meaning. If you do not have faith in science, you cannot do science no matter it puts mountain of evidence in front of you.
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 12:46 am
(July 27, 2014 at 11:56 pm)Harris Wrote: If abiogenesis is not the base of evolution, then how you justify the evolution in the first place.
We don't know. And that's it.
Seriously. We don't know how life originated; it could have arisen by natural means, or a god of some stripe could have done it, or some other thing. We know it's at least theoretically possible that it could happen naturally, but that's where the science stops. But we know that things evolve.
Quote: In other words, how life originated in first place if it is not spontaneous. Theory of evolution only leads us to believe in the spontaneous emergence of life by not giving appropriate explanation about the birth of first cell of life.
You know what? Gravity doesn't give an explanation about the birth of the first cell either, does that mean gravity leads us to believe in spontaneous emergence too? Evolution and the origins of life are entirely different ideas, evolution doesn't address abiogenesis in the same way cheese doesn't have anything to say about gold: they are not connected.
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 12:58 am
(July 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Ah yes, the standard dishonest equivocation of axioms required in order to function at all- axioms that have a track record of reliability in practice
How you have produced those axioms without having faith in the intelligibility of the universe?
(July 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote: by the way- with capital F Faith in a god, for which you have no evidence at all, and no record of effectiveness to go with it. Yawn.
Well, I am not trying to prove the existence of God using science, which is not capable of handling immaterial concepts and morals.
(July 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Hey, next tell us how we're just atheists because we want to sin!
You have a choice to accept good and refuse bad or to adopt vice by rejecting innate morals. You are a free only for this aspect of life.
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 1:09 am
(July 28, 2014 at 12:58 am)Harris Wrote: How you have produced those axioms without having faith in the intelligibility of the universe?
That's what axioms are, Harris: basal assumptions made in order to actually function. I don't apologize for not having all the answers just yet, and I will point out that my axioms have a proven track record of actually providing decent results that are consistent with observed reality. In short, I don't need to know why the universe remains consistent, to observe that it does remain consistent. All of the evidence, for every day in all of recorded human history, shows that the universe will remain intelligible. No faith required: we've observed that happening. It would take more faith to consistently believe that the universe wouldn't be intelligible.
Quote:Well, I am not trying to prove the existence of God using science, which is not capable of handling immaterial concepts and morals.
You can't prove, or even hint at, the existence of god at all. 
Quote:You have a choice to accept good and refuse bad or to adopt vice by rejecting innate morals. You are a free only for this aspect of life.
... I was being sarcastic.
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RE: Is Evolution a science or a faith?
July 28, 2014 at 1:53 am
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2014 at 2:28 am by Harris.)
(July 26, 2014 at 3:06 pm)Tobie Wrote: Faith, in religious context, is defined as a strong belief in the tenets of a religion based on spiritual conviction rather than evidence. Atheists haven't redefined it as that, that is what the word has always meant.
No, New Atheism redefines FAITH as a property of religion only. Whereas our minds depend on FAITH of almost anything that we think can provide comfort to us in any sense. Science depends on faith, without FAITH, our minds reject any evidence. The problem with religion is that on its face value, it seemingly dictates obligations over comfort and as we do not like discomfort, we reject all or any evidence without even giving a second thought to it.
(July 26, 2014 at 3:06 pm)Tobie Wrote: Physics is in no way a faith! There is huge amounts of evidence that the universe is intelligible to some degree - otherwise, science wouldn't exist. If you could never understand what was happening at all, then there is no way you could come up with a theory to explain what you are seeing.
“Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.”
Page 227
The Grand Design
By Stephen W. Hawking
How will you asses this quote? Is it a FAITH, Belief, or Science?
(July 26, 2014 at 3:06 pm)Tobie Wrote: Also, there is no such thing as an "atheist worldview". No two atheists will agree on everything beyond that they both do not believe a god exists.
So, you mean to say that atheist is living without having a particular philosophy of life or conception of the world. Isn’t it a pitiful situation, if so?
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