Do you find meaning in suffering and death? If so, what?

[Mudhammam]

I just woke up from a bizarre dream in which I drove an old friend to the hospital (we also got caught in a tornado/hurricane/water spout/or something on the way, which lifted my car up and then set it down--guessing it had something to do with watching the news when I fell asleep and seeing that tragedy in Taiwan) and was then pushing him around the corridors. In real life, he's been dead for almost 2 years and in fact, I did used to push him around in doctor's offices as he was wheelchair-bound due to a degenerative muscle disease. This past week I've also been reading Auschwitz extermination camp surivivor Viktor Frankl's classic book, "Man's Search For Meaning," in which he talks about the differences between people who gave up all hope (and often died as a result) and those who made an "inner decision" to view their sufferings as meaningful. I'd like to share some quotes from the book and then get your take on what you perceive as meaning in suffering or death, if you see any at all:

"An active life serves the purpose of giving man the opportunity to realize values in creative work, while a passive life of enjoyment affords him the opportunity to obtain fulfillment in experiencing beauty, art, or nature. But there is also purpose in that life which is almost barren of both creation and enjoyment and which admits of but one possibility of high moral behavior: namely, in man's attitude to his existence, an existence restricted by external forces. A creative life and a life of enjoyment are banned to him. But not only creativeness and enjoyment are meaningful. If there is a meaning in life at all, then there must be a meaning in suffering. Suffering is an ineradicable part of life, even as fate and death. Without suffering and death human life cannot be complete."

"It is a peculiarity of man that he can only live by looking to the future - sub specie aeternitatis. And this is his salvation in the most difficult moments of his existence, although he sometimes has to force his mind to the task."

"What does Spinoza say in his Ethics? - "Affectus, qui passio est, desinit esse passio simulatque eius claram et distinctam formamus ideam." Emotion, which is suffering, ceases to be suffering as soon as we form a clear and precise picture of it."

"The prisoner who had lost faith in the future - his future - was doomed. With his loss of belief in the future, he also lost his spiritual hold; he let himself decline and became subject to mental and physical decay."

"What was really needed was a fundamental change in our attitude toward life. We had to learn ourselves and, furthermore, we had to teach the despairing men,
that it did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to
think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life - daily and hourly. Our answer must consist, not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual."

"Nietzsche's words, "He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how," could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and psychohygienic efforts regarding prisoners." (italics in original).

[vorlon13]

I've lost many friends to HIV, and the suffering and early death was devastating.

The lost potential alone is staggering, it seemed we lost our best and brightest early on and it went terribly fast.

I envied the families, once their son died, AIDS was over for them, to me in 1990, it seemed it would never end.

Dave was about 10 years older than I was when he died, and that made him one of the oldest men I knew that died, and he wasn't even 40 yet. I'm 20 years older than Dave was now when he passed, and it is jarring what has became of those of us that are left.

It's not even remotely close the future that might have been.

[Rabb Allah]

I am very Dharmicish on this topic. I find great meaning in suffering and even death as both have very positive yet negative effects. The obvious positive effect of suffering is that helps us mature and nurture meaningful attitudes towards others although it can do just the opposite. A benefit of death is linked with population control yet death often comes to those who have not even matured enough to experience the sensation of life.

Suffering is of more value to me than death because it helps give great opportunities for character development. It helps us establish stronger and more enduring relationships and attitudes. The suffering of child birth is one such example while a man being bored to death at a wedding ceremony is a more comical one. Suffering no matter the form can easily be used to create a stronger character for any individual

[Dystopia]

A hard question. I don't know if I can find any meaning whatsoever in death. Death is just a natural process, it's not good or bad, it just is, everybody dies, you can't stop it. I can however find meaning in other people's death depending on the circumstances and my relationship with the deceased person.

As for suffering, it's never good at first, but it can help strengthen one's body and mind, it just depends. I think going trough some unfortunate events made me a stronger person (my dad died when I was only 16) and more apt for emotional stability. For physical suffering, I don't really see much point in it unless it helps you survive in a certain life or death situation.

[ShaMan]

My mother committed suicide when I was 14. It left a strong, and lasting impression.

[Mudhammam]

I always fear that once I am "over the hill" (I'm 26 now), that age when health and time are all "downhill" from there--then my perception of a future will increasingly diminish--and with it my sense of purpose and joy. I'm always encouraged when I read authors who are well on their way to the grave (70s or 80s) and feel no less inspired; Irvin Yalom and Victor Stenger have written pieces that caused me to feel that way. Are there any older members here who can speak to what I'm referring to? Or will it not be at all like I imagine? (In other words, does getting old not suck as bad as I fear it will?)

[ShaMan]

(In other words, does getting old not suck as bad as I fear it will?)

I'm almost 50 (still young), and I am more inspired, more passionate about life, kinder, wiser, and gentler than I ever could have imagined being when I was in my 20's and 30's. This beautiful life just keeps getting better and richer.

[MJ the Skeptical]

I hate both suffering and death, the former more than the latter. However, I think there can be some meaning found.

Suffering: With suffering, it can make you humble, make you more empathetic and give you a different perspective on the world, for better or for worse. For me, it makes me bitter, but to each their own.

Death: The obvious meaning for death that came to mind was that we need to die eventually so the next generation can live. But if we master medical science and space travel...then awesome, death will no longer be needed for our new offspring to live on.

[Jenny A]

It's not so much as I find meaning in death. But death infuses life with greater meaning. This is what you get boy, use it. Twenty-six is way too early to think of it as on the decline. I'm over 50 and while my body has passed it's peak, I haven't.

[Violet]

The meaning in death is in the ending, in those who have been ripped away by the force of life, forever. The meaning in suffering is in the growing, and for many, they grow the most as their active part in the story comes to a close.

Ultimately, it laughs, and it plays, and it dreams... and we're all swept along, or so it seems.