Muslim Atheism

[Fidel_Castronaut]

It's funny because he's citing himself to prove why he's right.

It's like, totally Lolariffic.

[Losty]

Meh does it in every thread.

[Muslim Atheism]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

Here is the good ol' Wiki page on Logic. There are at least 9 different separate types of logic listed here. I don't pretend to understand them all.
I don't seem to see QURAN LOGIC though. If the logic in your holy book is so all-encompassing and incontravertible you would think somebody would have noticed that by now? How about that ...

Repeating the same fallacy, how is that relevant to the facts in the Quran ? Never mind. .

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It's funny because he's citing himself to prove why he's right.

It's like, totally Lolariffic.

or no logic at all.

[vodkafan]

How is the quran relevant to the facts of logic? That is the proper question

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Here is an exercise for you: please explain your understanding of what allah is for us WITHOUT quoting from the quran. If allah is the creative force, first cause,whatever, you should be able to explain the concept of his existence without recourse to a book, as he existed before the book and is bigger than the book....is that logical for you? I want to understand YOUR concept of allah/god. I AM NOT INTERESTED in the quran.

[Muslim Atheism]

How is the quran relevant to the facts of logic? That is the proper question

I'm presenting the logic from the statements from the Quran itself. . .
the statement propositions and the its deductive arguments.

Do you understand what this means ?

So what is logic? Briefly speaking, we might define logic as the study of the principles of correct reasoning.

Logic is not the psychology of reasoning

One thing you should note about this definition is that logic is concerned with the principles of correct reasoning. Studying the correct principles of reasoning is not the same as studying the psychology of reasoning. Logic is the former discipline, and it tells us how we ought to reason if we want to reason correctly. Whether people actually follow these rules of correct reasoning is an empirical matter, something that is not the concern of logic.

The psychology of reasoning, on the other hand, is an empirical science. It tells us about the actual reasoning habits of people, including their mistakes. A psychologist studying reasoning might be interested in how people's ability to reason varies with age. But such empirical facts are of no concern to the logician.

Very Basic Terms of Logic

Logic might be minimally defined as:

The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

For example - refer here

. . . .

I AM NOT INTERESTED in the quran.

Then what is the issue ? Muslim Atheism is about following the practical Code of Ethics from the Quran , understanding the Quran from its logical framework. . .

No Quran = No "Muslim" Atheism. (refer here and here), but merely the "Atheism". . .
and I don't want to be the Sectarian Atheist, never. Sorry.

• As for those who divide up their deen (دِينَهُمْ) and form into sect/religion (شِيَعًا)
  you have nothing whatsoever to do with them
  6.159
  
  For you is your deen (sectarianism, traits of Atheism and Theism)
  and for me is my deen (unity in diversity and assimilating with all people, one nation)
  (109.6)

[Losty]

Crunch crunch crunch.

[Muslim Atheism]

IMO. . . sectarianism is a religion, and it is unacceptable in Muslim Atheism, never. . . "No Religion".

[Mystical]

* hops in, assesses situation, laughs, hoptails the hell out

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I lol'd

[Muslim Atheism]

Logical Premises for No Religion

People can be Muslim without faith



People can be Muslim even if they disbelieve in Allah, hell, paradise, angels or any myth and religious superstition etc. The following is the minimum requirement of a Muslim.

• The bedouins say, “We have believed.”
  Say, “You have not believed;
  but say, ‘We have submitted,’
  for faith has not yet entered your hearts.
  And if you obey Allah and His Messenger
  He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything.
  Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
  49.14-15

First Premise

• When Allah says “You have not believed”
  It means, “You have not believed” (ie. '0' faith in Allah)
  It does not means, “You have believed”

This fact is very clear and no one can change its meaning. However, someone may insist they are the Believers; like those bedouins, but it is not according to Allah.

• The believers are only the ones who have believed in Allah and His Messenger and then doubt not but strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah . It is those who are the truthful. (49.15)
  
  The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, their hearts become fearful, and when His verses are recited to them, it increases them in faith; and upon their Lord they rely. (8.2)

Therefore, it doesn't matter if people disbelieve in Allah. It is irrelevant and carries no weight for the determination of a Muslim. What really matters people obey the practical rules from the Quran, ie. the commands from the entirely clear verses from the Quran.

. . .
Second Premise

• When Allah says “You have not believed”
  and then, ‘We have submitted’

It means, there is a distinction between Faith and Obedience, between Believer and Muslim. These two do not mean the same and human being only accountable for obedience. Faith is within Allah prerogative, and an obedience is human accountability. There is no blame for what is beyond human's control.

• Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. (2.286)

My understanding the system is a Trade System. Human beings sells obedience (Muslim) and Allah pay them with faith (Believer). Faith must be earned and the more they sell, the more faith they have.

• O you who have believed, shall I guide you to a transaction that will save you from a painful punishment? [It is that] you believe in Allah and His Messenger (the Quran) and strive in the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives (skills). That is best for you, if you should know. (61:10-11)

. . .
Third Premise

• When Allah says “And if you obey Allah and His Messenger.
  He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything”
  and then “Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful”

It means, people may enter Paradise even if they disbelieve in Allah, ie. '0' faith in Allah. It can be wrong, but Allah said “Allah is Forgiving and Merciful”. Allah does not forget and shall forgive anything from “lack of faith”. Muslim shall only concern with practical aspect of life”, ie. Deen of Islam.

The system is justified and reasonable.


. . .

Awliya
(10:62-64)
Freedom



Believer
(with faith)
(49:15) (8:2)
Benefiting humanity



Muslim
(with or without faith)
Peacemaker



Living Justly Balanced
An upright man



|<---------------------+ Islam +--------------------->|
Peacemaking
Islam is a contract to live as one nation in peace (2:27)



Enemy to Social Unity
Corrupters



Munafiqoon
Hypocrites
Commit evil silently



Mushrikeen
Idolaters
Commit evil openly



True Disbelievers
Criminals / Oppressors