Obesity

[Chad32]

No, we really see no connection between belittling people who are mostly that way due to their own mistakes, and belittling people who were born a certain way or otherwise suffer from things they have no control over.

Most people who are obese are that way because they haven't been taking care of themselves, and could fix on their own. Cripples and retards are not in the same group.

I just have to say that I think belittling people is wrong regardless of whether or not they are at fault for becoming whatever it is you're belittling them for.

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You know, I am not a stickler for PC language, but is there some reason why we are saying cripple and retard as if they're not blatantly offensive terms?

Well I didn't really start trying to lose weight enough until my mother and grandmother badgered me so much about it. I mean I wouldn't say something really hateful, but making someone uncomfortable about their problem can help them work their way out of it.

Retard is kind of a bad word to say. I'm not sure about cripple, but I guess different people find different words just as bad. I'm pretty sure Drich was going for offensive, though.

[Napoléon]

I'm a glutton half the time, but the other half I starve myself. I've been as low as 145 pounds as as big as 230 pounds, but anymore I'll force myself to slim down at the 200 mark. It is so easy to lose weight if you have your priorities straight, at least for guys. When it is diet time I drop a pound a day with a strict ass diet and exercise. .. I'm just to lazy to punish myself like that for a lifetime so I gradually pack it back on. I just don't get obese people and why they choose to live like that.

The problem is, the bigger you get the harder it is to lose weight.

You become more self conscious and as a result you don't want to go to the gym due to that. You will have to work harder than anybody else in that gym because simply walking at a moderate pace is excruciating. It will also take you longer to get to a weight you perceive as 'normal' or acceptable. It just all round takes more effort to go out and exercise when you become obese. The end result is you become more and more of a depressed mess, many people will take to comfort eating, which leads them to get even more fat and you become even more lazy. It's a vicious cycle I suppose.

The thing is though, losing weight is actually incredibly easy, like you said. I'd say 80% of losing weight is simply diet. I could lose 30lbs in a month or so just by dieting and watching my calorie intake. In fact, I plan on losing at least half that within the next 3 weeks.

[Losty]

I just have to say that I think belittling people is wrong regardless of whether or not they are at fault for becoming whatever it is you're belittling them for.

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You know, I am not a stickler for PC language, but is there some reason why we are saying cripple and retard as if they're not blatantly offensive terms?

Well I didn't really start trying to lose weight enough until my mother and grandmother badgered me so much about it. I mean I wouldn't say something really hateful, but making someone uncomfortable about their problem can help them work their way out of it.

Retard is kind of a bad word to say. I'm not sure about cripple, but I guess different people find different words just as bad. I'm pretty sure Drich was going for offensive, though.

I guess I don't see badgering someone you love about losing weight to be the same as belittling them. If you care about someone you want them to lose weight because they are important to you, I feel like belittling them would have an adverse effect. Then I again I think Americans tend to be overly sensitive about being called fat. I call my kids fat all the time but they're not fat it's just used as a term of endearment. (Ok my youngest actually is fat haha but she's a baby she's allowed to be fat)

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='738708' dateline='1409194036']
Would you say being gay is curable?

No, because you are born that way and it doesn't need to be cured.

Would you say to someone with a family history of suicides, to just buck up? If you just stop feeling sorry for yourself everything will be ok?

Depression is far more than just feeling down. Its all about the pleasure pathway in the brain and dopamine receptors, I would go into more detail but I don't want to butcher it and you probably wouldn't understand it either.

What makes people born into a family history of obesity any different?

Because obesity is learned, its a simple equation, if you eat more calories than you burn every day, you are going to get fat.

Don't you get the trigger for eating and the signal to stop eating all come from the same place that those who claim the were born gay, and those who are prone to depression and suicidal thoughts orginate their predispositions from?

No you don't, obesity is simply related to behaviour, homosexuality and depression come from differences in brain chemistry.

Are all of you so oblivious and blind that you can put these two things together on your own without a doctor

Trust you to think you know better than a doctor

oz or oprah telling you to think this way?

I don't believe i've ever watched her show.

I'm no oprah, but for me, if the same thinking organ who's signles and desires are so strong as to make one man lust after another man. despite supposedly a hundred trillion years of monkey loving evolution telling him otherwise.. But, can't help himself looking for another dude ... This is somehow ok..

Yes, why would it not be?

Or if this thinking organ tells us that yes we have everything, and yes we maybe an award winning actor, but life is not worth living even though you have captivated a whole nation full of people in film and on tv, that this too is beyond the control of the person who has these thoughts...

You are such a biggot. The ignorance here is astounding. You literally have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea how the brain works, you have no idea about the chemicals and the reactions that take place. Once again you biggot. Why don't you actually investigate the subject and read the material before you go spouting off your prejudiced bullshit.

But, for the person like al roker and oprah who's brains are hard wired for high caloric I takes, who try and fail, and fail and fail to keep the weight off, are somehow less than socially acceptable?

I commend people who try to lose weight, but if they can't, then they aren't trying hard enough. Everyone can lose weight and keep it off. Its about how determined you are.

These two were accepted, but what of everyone else hard wired that way? Are you saying it is ok to have certain uncontrollable desires and not others? Where is this line drawn? Who draws it?

You have no idea what you are talking about again. 'hard wired' tell me, what do you actually think that means?

Oh and now your trying to spin that we find homosexuality acceptable so we should also find obesity acceptable? No.
Obesity is harmful. It is incredibly unhealthy. It costs billions to treat obesity related diseases.
Homosexuality on the other hand, does absolutely no harm to anyone at all ever.
[/quote]

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15.../R124.full
http://www.cdc.gov/features/obesity
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20101011/...-belly-fat

Looks like your just flat out ignorant, at least where obesity is concerned. I can provide a half a dozen more equally legitmate links that support my position, and craps on yours if you like, but I'm sure google would do the same for you, if you would have simply researched the topic before you misrepresented yourself and what the medical community think.

Know in your heart that you and those who think like you are beyond wrong here, and if you will not change you are a bigot on the level of the 'god hates fag Christians', and those who hate people because of mental disorder or some other physical ailment.

Which make you a well defined, and evidence based hypocrite.

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[quote='Drich' pid='738711' dateline='1409194320']Explain

Why? If you can't figure it out... Seriously Drich, it's not hard to see your straw-men. You make then sooooo obvious.
[/quote]

If you can not defend you position nor provide clarity when ask your comment will simply be dismissed.

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[quote='Drich' pid='732796' dateline='1408419341']
What about cripples, retards, and people with an incurable diseases? Tell us mein fuhrur how they make you sick as well. Tell us what your final solution would be to cure the world of this plague... Oh and dont forget about das udens as well. Tell us how the world would be at peace if not for das udens.

Just curious, how many generations are you from wwii? Who's side did your grandfather fight on?

2. My mother's father was a cobbler for the Allies.

And how about you go fuck yourself on this one? Obesity is a habituated condition, your own choices led to your own problems. I, on the other hand, with Type 1 diabetes, means that someone fucked the wrong person, and their offspring fucked the wrong person, all down the chain to me. I don't get a say in "having" Diabetes. You can be damn sure that I'm going to try my hardest to keep from getting unlivably obese though. I didn't choose to be a strain on society, but the obese do. Same for the "cripples, retards and incurables", not many of them CHOSE their disability.
[/quote]

See the above post you biggot.

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The use of the terms' cripples and retards' was an example of how hitler dehumanized and targeted the 'weak' parts of humanity and socially ear marked them for elimination from his ideal of a perfect soceity... This is in parallel with how diablo and yourself have used the word obese. You have taken the humanity out of fat people and sentenced them out casts. This was exactly what hitler did when the undesirables were labeled in his Germany.

No, that would be if he'd used terms like "bloater" "lard bucket" or "chunker". Obese is merely a medical term for a medical condition which is largely self inflicted, and which parents can inflict on children. . See the difference?

look it up, retarded was a medical term, so was cripple in the 1940s. Because these medical terms were quickly used to dehumanize the people it described the medical community adopted new terms.

The point I was making was that obesity is a word much like retarded. It started out simply describing a condition, and then it took on a new role. Diablo did use a medical term, but in such away as to dehumanize a segment of the population. That way it was acceptable to take away basic human rights and respect. The rest of you followed suit, when his actions were questioned.

There are many such. I'm not obese, but I do drink too much single malt and eat the wrong things, which will probably shave a decade off my life. My choice but I don't pretend that it's "diversity". Nobody claims that alcohol abuse is a normal variant. Nor does anyone claim that people who drink a bit much should be forces into detox. Nor does society tolerate parents who encourage alcohol abuse in children.

You know what the preferred term for obesity is in the NHS is at the moment? "Patients with complex needs". What a pile of shit. It's not complex at all. In the vast majority of cases they are obese because they eat all the pies and never exercise. If you can't see the difference between that and the national genocide your moral compass is just plain broken.

Maybe that's the problem . You guys are so bust looking at your moral compasses that you loose sight of just plain common sense.

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[quote='Pickup_shonuff' pid='738748' dateline='1409200050']
I've been on this forum for ten months and it has just occurred to me that drich seems to be rapidly losing his marbles the past few weeks. Seriously, at least before, when I disagreed with him, I thought his remarks were semi-thoughtful. But lately he just seems to be turning into a progressively bitter, hateful, nut job...unless I simply overestimated his wit from the beginning. I hope that guy gets some real help asap.

All I have done is take the vocabulary and emphasis out of a typical atheist Christian arguement and turn the roles around. What's more I have pair my position with facts and verfiable references, (proof) to support my claims, and I have been actively point out where your typical arguements fail.. In essence I have raised the bar. Rather than meet this raising of the bar, you want to lower it, by calling me names. Lowering the bar again so you can argue the same old arguements goes no where.

Look if what I say and do, forces you to think about think differently, and you are opposed to that, then know that no one is making you respond to me, or even read my posts.

I have had my fill of hypocrites. Those who say they stand for certain principles like gay rights, (because gays are genetically predispositioned to be attracted to the same sex via a singular unknown unverified gay gene) and here we have well over a dozen obesity genes mapped and cataloged genes, which regulate the conversion rate and the storage of fat and the (gay like attraction/uncontrollable desire)for certain foods. Is looked upon like a Westbrough baptist would look at a gay wedding.

Woe to you modern morality Pharisees and makers of your own laws, you Hypocrites!
You plot and plan way to speak against the religious for condemning those supposedly genetically bound to behave a certain way citing pseduo science and forecasting what will be discovered about the human genome, all the while you your selfs spew your own hate and disdain for those in whom you believe lack will power.

Wake up! This is the same arguement the Westbrough baptist that you speak against uses to condemn the gay!

Only difference is that we factually know of and have mapped obesity genes!!! This makes you worse than the Westbrough baptists! Read half the responses written to me, you people don't even know, that obesity can be a legitmate medical disorder.

If calling out hypocrisy makes me crazy then just put me on your ignore list, bury your head in the sand so you do not have to think about how broken your life philosophy really is and keep spewing your hypocritical hate.

[Bad Wolf]

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15.../R124.full

First link is about health risks and literally says some people are more predisposed to obesity. I'm not sure what you think you are refuting here since I never said that genes didn't play a role in obesity. My position is that everyone can lose weight.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/obesity

And again, obesity has links to genes. I really don't know what point your trying to make.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20101011/...-belly-fat

The more obesity genes a person had, the greater their risk of being obese, the study showed. Individuals who carried 38 or more BMI-associated genes weighed 15 to 20 pounds more, on average, than those who had fewer than 22, the researchers report. Still, these variants explain only a small fraction of the overall variation in body weight because many other genetic and environmental factors also contribute to obesity risk.

Obesity is related to genes but is caused by environmental factors e.g. eating too much and not exercising enough. Homosexuality is definitely caused by your genes and depression is predominantly caused by your genes, just look at Robin Williams. He had it all, fame, fortune, family, the adoration of entire countries and yet he killed himself. I don't think you actually read the links you posted.

Looks like your just flat out ignorant, at least where obesity is concerned. I can provide a half a dozen more equally legitmate links that support my position, and craps on yours if you like, but I'm sure google would do the same for you, if you would have simply researched the topic before you misrepresented yourself and what the medical community think.

Just for clarity here, can you repeat what exactly your position is and what you think my'n is.

[Endo]

Yeah, I'M a BIGOT because I don't want to pay for your fat ass, the poor choices you've made, and the drain on the medical system that you represent. I'M a BIGOT because YOUR CHOICES are affecting ME and MY WALLET. I'll pay for your shitty genes any day of the week, but not the shit YOU CAN CONTROL.

"Hi, I'm Jacob, and I'm a bigot."
"Hi, Jacob."

[Aractus]

I saw a family today, parents and 2 pre-teen children, all of them shockingly obese. They were walking, or rather waddling, along the road stuffing their mouths with yet more food. They were British, too.

Now, I'm a believer that adults are entitled to do pretty much what they want with their bodies: drink, smoke, extreme sports etc. I post on a rugby forum and some of the injury anecdotes there are pretty bad. But that's adults. (Who pays for it is a different issue.)

But it seems to me that allowing your children to get that obese, in the knowledge - if they understand it - that the child will likely have multiple health problems, and die young, represents child abuse. If it wasn't for the fact that the care system in Britain is terrible, with very poor outcomes, I'd suggest that the children should be taken into care. As it is, I guess there's not very much that can be done. Maybe social services could intervene.

Very disturbing.

I'd like to point out that you have the pre-conceived belief that people do know how to eat healthily and how to to this for their children.

This is not necessarily true, or not 100% true anyway. Especially with very strong external influences with a vested interest in selling you as much food as possible and maximising profits.

Also there's the perspective of addiction to consider. Our bodies excrete the leptin hormone to regulate our fat storage - part of our bodies homoeostasis, and breaking it - what's termed as "leptin resistance" is the true cause of obesity. Now we can't consciously choose to break any internal conditions of our bodies, especially ones that are held in dynamic equilibrium. If your internal body temperature isn't within 0.5 or so degrees of 37 degrees it would usually indicate illness. Same basic principle with leptin - not producing the correct amount, or not responding the correct way to the hormone is not how our bodies are supposed to behave.

There are theories on how this happens, but no one knows for sure why. What is true, however, is that the same western countries pre-1970's did not have the problem that we do now.

It's also true for animals - if you look at say horses you keep on your farm, and you let them eat as much grass as they want most of them will not become overweight - only a small number will. I don't know what the expected number might be, but let's say it's 5% is what you'd normally expect to see. If however there were 60% instead of 5% overweight then it would mean that this population has something very different about it to the base population. Assuming that it is caused by leptin resistance, you could then look to find out what is causing the problem - now it might be something as simple as a defective gene in that particular breed - that, however, is not a possible explination for humans, because as I just said you could take 1960's USA and compare it directly to 2010's USA - there may be some differences in demographics, etc, but everyone still has the same basic genes and so you wouldn't expect it to be genetic.

With that said, it appears that the body may not respond to refined sugar - so for instance, if you drink a litre of orange juice or coke or anything that's basically sugar-water, your body doesn't produce the correct amount of extra leptin to tell you when you're full, thus you're consuming true empty calories since your body still tells you to eat just as much as if you didn't have any sugar. It may also be true for foods with added sugar. In other words, if you have the same meal with added refined sugar your body doesn't see or count the extra calories when excreting leptin.

The reason why this appears to be the case is that just like ethanol, fructose is only metabolised by the liver, and leptin is excreted by the fat cells so they can only respond to glucose and don't see the fructose.

So, as you can see, most people firstly don't know how to eat better, and also we do not know how to effectively address the problem. Your assertion, also fails to address the problem of overweight 6-month, 9-month and 2-year olds (see this for instance). The theory that parents are over-feeding their children does not explain overweight babies - they don't get over-fed or under-fed, they get fed what they require.

[Whateverist]

Not to mention, Mr. and Mrs. Morbidly Obese may be devout Christians who look forward to the next life for themselves and their children. They may see indulging every pleasure to be practice for heaven where every satisfaction awaits. Gosh, don't they have a right to want what they see as best for their kids?

[ShaMan]

Tonight for supper I'm making angel hair pasta with tomato, red onion, zucchini, garlic, basil, rosemary, olive oil, salt & pepper... All fresh from the garden. I may even add cheese

[Losty]

Tonight for supper I'm making angel hair pasta with tomato, red onion, zucchini, garlic, basil, rosemary, olive oil, salt & pepper... All fresh from the garden. I may even add cheese

Sounds delicious!
How do you grow the pasta? :p

I really like "spaghetti" with either spaghetti squash or sliced bell peppers instead of pasta.