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Current time: August 21, 2019, 8:13 pm

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Adrian and I disagree on faith.
#11
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Quote:You can find out, you can call my boss, you can verify. That is not the case with what will happen next month.
I can call your boss, and I have to believe he is telling me the truth. That is then based on faith again. This was the problem I had with your original post...every belief can be justified as "faith based", which means your definition of the word "faith" is synonymous with "belief" in the first place.

Give me an example of a statement that can be believed but does not depend on faith in any way...

Quote:Indeed, so what?
So I don't think there is any logic to saying non-verifiable things are all "faith-based". Unless you went with your range system and said "The belief that the sun will rise tomorrow is based on lots of evidence / reason, and a little bit of faith".
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#12
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Why the qualifier reason then?

edit:
Quote:So I don't think there is any logic to saying non-verifiable things are all "faith-based".

Why not?
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#13
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Reading back I can kind of see where you are coming from, but as far as I can tell, and correct me if I am wrong, you seem to have the notion that faith is an exclusively unreasonable belief. That I think is where our main difference lies.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#14
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Because some are more reason-based than faith based. If you are content on using a scale, then you cannot deny that belief in God is more faith based than belief that the sun will come up tomorrow. The latter is more based on reason.

You still haven't given me an example of a belief that isn't based on faith though, which supports my contention that your version of "faith" is synonymous with "belief" and is therefore useless.
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#15
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Likewise, I see where you are coming from, I just see more sense in having "faith" separate from "belief", in that "faith" is a special case of belief, rather than every belief being called a faith as it would be from your position.
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#16
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Regardless of if it can be known for certain that the sun will come out tomorrow or not (I believe that it cannot), if you consider it to be more likely due to reasons - if you consider it to be indicated - then from all dictionaries I've read that is by definiton evidence. And "circumstantial evidence at best" as you've said Leo, is still evidence.

And how I understand the definition of faith is it is belief that lacks evidence. I don't think my belief lacks evidence that the sun will come off tomorrow at all, far from it. It is certainly more likely than not in my view. The fact that so far every day in my life it has - and it has been recorded throughout history and prehistory as having done so of course -, etc, I see to be very strong evidence indeed. So yes I think that these 'reasons' that give a very strong indication of the sun coming up is therefore evidence.

EvF
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#17
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Not to sound pedantic but the Sun doesn't come up.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#18
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
(February 5, 2010 at 5:20 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Because some are more reason-based than faith based. If you are content on using a scale, then you cannot deny that belief in God is more faith based than belief that the sun will come up tomorrow. The latter is more based on reason.

no that difference is more based in tangible and testable reality not reason
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#19
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
(February 5, 2010 at 7:11 pm)leo-rcc Wrote: Not to sound pedantic but the Sun doesn't come up.

Well you know what I mean. I'm talking about what we see lol.

EvF
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#20
RE: Adrian and I disagree on faith.
Isn't the difference between faith and belief in the common sense that faith accepts basic assumptions as unshakable truth while common belief only accepts the assumptions as yet unproven hypotheses?
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
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