What is so special about us?!?

[Watson]

We think we are special because that's how we evolved, just like how we evolved the concept of beauty and love. People then tried to put reason to why we had these "special" traits before Darwin and invented religion.

Argh...I really don't like this...we did not evolve love...

[Darwinian]

We think we are special because that's how we evolved, just like how we evolved the concept of beauty and love. People then tried to put reason to why we had these "special" traits before Darwin and invented religion.

Argh...I really don't like this...we did not evolve love...

Why not? It had to come from somewhere so what's wrong with evolution coming up with it? Evolution's not a dirty word you know!

[Watson]

I know, evolution is a fine process and a quite fascinating phenomenon. But love is something very trancendant of that and of the mere human mind.

[Autumnlicious]

I know, evolution is a fine process and a quite fascinating phenomenon. But love is something very trancendant of that and of the mere human mind.

Unsubstantiated claim made with fuzzy feel good terminology. Lack of consideration evolutionary impulses in primate social grouping favor development of attachments and other emotions tied to it (love, wanting to be accepted).

[Watson]

haha Okay, Syn. You go on thinking that about love. No one's stopping you.

[Edwardo Piet]

No, the human curiosity is not assigned or decided upon by us, I don't think. All humans are curious, it is a "specialness" that we did not seem to decide upon.

We are not the one's that decided on our own curiosity ultimately, no. We can thank biological and - perhaps a bit of cultural - evolution for that.

I'm talking about the title of "special", whether something is worthy of being "special" or not is entirely up to us on this planet for no other life forms - at least yet - on this planet of doing that as far as we know.

With or without curiosity... it is US who give us our own title of "special" - who else does? It's the same with all moral values, they're subjective. Some may think humans are "special" others may not. There are many ways that other animals are special too... we are just the one's that make the definitions and decide that we're more special - if we do indeed decide that. Who else does?

Here is another angle: Where is the specialness? I heard a new report yesterday that the amount of DNA that is unique to humans is only about 1.5%. The number used to be higher and it has been whittled down until recently it got so low. Where in that 1.5% of unique DNA is everything that differentiates us as human? Or is it not there, we are looking in the wrong place?

I think that we reached a point of evolution where we reached the snowball effect and were able to evolve culture, use tools, think intelligently... and most of all - a sophisticated language (in comparison to any other animals that may have some form of "language") - Then we just took off like a rocket I reckon. Evolutionary speed speaking I mean - because cultural evolution moves a lot faster than biological.

Seriously though... like Adrian says in the OP, there are many ways that other animals are superior to us. And yes we have curiosity and superior intellect - but for us to decide that that's "better" or more "special" than say, having the eyes of an eagle - that's just by our own judgement as humans! Who elses? Sure we can do a lot of good with our intellect... but we can do a lot of fucking bad too. I don't come to the conclusion that we are "special" or "better"... I think we're just different and we judge ourselves to be "special" or "better" - just because we can. And then we may say we're special because we're the only species that can judge ourselves as special - but what's so special about that? Other species are unique too. We just say we're special.

EvF

[Pippy]

Hey all,

With or without curiosity... it is US who give us our own title of "special" - who else does?

But the symbol is abstracted from the reality. We can decide that we are special, we can assign the symbol of the word and concept of 'special' to ourselves... But if we are truly unique in the objective reality of the situation, than that is separate from our designation of it... Just jargon? Ummmm. Whether or not we are unique is a fact (albeit an debatable one) and that fact preempts our ability to recognize it (a chicken and an egg).

because cultural evolution moves a lot faster than biological.

And unfortunately cultural devolution moves faster than biological.

So it was either that the priest lied, or heaven is full of calculators.

Now that was funny! Thank you for sharing that.

The only thing special about us is that we are the only species on the planet that think we are special.

I would amend that to say we are the only species the can think we are special, for better and worse.

But I guess some people find comfort in believing that they're superior to everything else.

I agree that they do, and I chagrin these people. Surely my belief in the uniqueness of humans is not necessarily a superiority. I hold animals and plant and bacteria and all life in very high regard. Humans are unique, that much seems obvious. But certainly I don't think we are superior, we just are what we are.

Thanks.

[Edwardo Piet]

But the symbol is abstracted from the reality. We can decide that we are special, we can assign the symbol of the word and concept of 'special' to ourselves... But if we are truly unique in the objective reality of the situation, than that is separate from our designation of it... Just jargon? Ummmm. Whether or not we are unique is a fact

A fact? Has this been scientifically verified?

I don't see how us being unique is a "fact" at all - why? Because there are loads of unique species out there, in fact to some extent - pretty much/all species are unique right? There are many incredibly species out there. So why is intellect/curiosity particularly "special" just because we say so? How is it more special than other species that are special in ways in which we are not? And if we're all special for our own ways... then isn't that just the same of none of us being? What criterion are we going by? I am not just a moral relativist I am a relativist about all objective values altogether. And knowing this I don't see why I'd feel partial to our own human "specialness" just because I'm human - because I'm all too aware that it's self made and pointless. Yes you could say we're special, but no more special than other species I say - we all have our differences - so I think the whole thing of "specialness" ultimately loses it's whole meaning. At least from my perspective. I don't believe in "specialness".

and that fact preempts our ability to recognize it (a chicken and an egg)

That just begs the question I think though. To say that we're special because we are able to recognize it just begs the question of why we think that that is special. By what criterion are we judging it? Our own conceit? That's what I personally think because other species of organism are all special in our own way too. Sure we're unique, but so are other animals. Sure our intellect and curiosity is something particularly interesting to study, sure. But it's interesting to us - so I don't see how we can objectively say we're "special" in anyway - as I said, by what criterion do we do that? -... and if we're not going to be objective and dispassionate about the matter here, then we're just talking about feelings here and I thought this was a factual question not an overpouring of "Ain't we special?".

And unfortunately cultural devolution moves faster than biological.

Interesting point. Although perhaps it could be argued that not all culture is positive anyway? Perhaps we'd be better off if the A-Bomb and the H-Bomb where never invented? I'm more interested than the research and interesting facts that technology itself. Technology can be and is overall I believe, fucking awesome. But there can be some bad too of course. If we could move on technologically but somehow undiscover the A and H-Bomb and somehow never re-discover it maybe that would be better? I don't see why not? Hm (if that were even possible I mean lol).

I would amend that to say we are the only species the can think we are special, for better and worse.

I think you took me out of context though... because I'm saying how that may be one point of view - but I don't see why that's special. By what criterion are we judging this? There are many other ways to be "special" surely... so what's so special about us, or indeed any species, ultimately? If we're all special and unique in our own ways then ultimately how is any species any more "special" than the other? I would really like to know how this can be objectively judged at all... it is US simply projecting the meaning on - how are we more special than other species? Why is intellect, or curiosity, or being able to be aware of our won intellect and curiosity - particularly special? Just because we say so? I mean who says so? It is us isn't it - but how are we actually judging that to be more special than other species that are also unique and special in their own way. If all species are "special" and "unique" in their own way... then the whole thing loses meaning in and of itself.

This is all just subjective view points.... we project our own values. Values are relative. So what is the point in thinking we're special if that is ultimately meaningless? We may feel special or we may not. But either way - by what criterion can we possibly judge that we really are?

Values are relative. Values are relative. Values are relative. Right??? It's cherry picking to say we're special because we could just as easily do the same with other species. By what criterion can we possibly judge that "Oh yes, other species are special too but we're MORE special"... we can't can we - because this is all subjective and relative, meaningless in and of itself. It's a matter of personal feelings but personal feelings often ultimately come about through worldview/viewpoints I reckon - this is why I don't have any feelings on this said matter because it just all seems meaningless to me, it really does. We can put ourseleves into our own special category and say "We're the most special organism on this planet by definition now... we're in the special category" - but what would that prove? Seriously, how are we special? We're no more special than any other organism because this judgement is all subjective and relative, right? "Specialness" is not an objective judgement, is it?

I have not stumbles onto the scientific facts and theories of specialness. Is this a factual matter at all? No I think.

I agree that they do, and I chagrin these people. Surely my belief in the uniqueness of humans is not necessarily a superiority.

Unique in what way? Unique like other animals could also be judged to be unique? So what do you mean? You mean the fact we're the most intelligent, we have culture, etc, etc. Sure, if that's what you mean, fine. But we already know that don't we? The question is how is that any more "special"? Because we say so? This is all speculation because values are relative and subjective. To cherry pick out our own specialness doesn't make us any more "special" - by what criterion is this to be done if it is to be objective? This is a subjective, relative matter of values so to see how selves as more special for no other reason than preference is a form of bias IMO.

I hold animals and plant and bacteria and all life in very high regard. Humans are unique, that much seems obvious.

No. Otherwise there wouldn't be a debate going on, and the "specialness" and "uniqueness" of humanity would be a scientific fact.

Provide evidence that we are any more special than other life forms. Can't do it? Then why claim it? Why do you think it? Just because you have difficulty thinking of how other animals are unique? Well the fact you can't think of it doesn't make us any more special - we are humans are biased - that would be the Argument From Personal Incredulity.

Guess what? "Uniqueness" is an entirely subjective and relative value (like I believe all are) - in my view anyway. It's like a preference, like pizza. If you don't agree then please provide evidence for why this value is at all objective. If not then you're talking feelings not fact - and feelings that are biased because you have no factual reason to think we're really any more "unique". Isn't every species unique? How are we "more unique"? Ever heard of a Slime Mold? That's pretty fucking unique one could say, but one couldn't argue. I think they are by my own imperfect completely UNobjective, subjective judgement just because I like them. I do not claim they are actually "unique" at all because this is not an objective matter. I just like them like I like certain pieces of music more than others, or certain foods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slime_mold - so by what criterion are we actually any more "unique" than the Slime Mold? Or indeed.... anything at all?

But certainly I don't think we are superior, we just are what we are.

Me neither. How would I judge that at all? How could I judge superior, inferior, - or indeed, uniqueness and "specialness" - like that?

EvF

[chatpilot]

Basing myself on natural selection, as humans we have done as all other species on this planet have done. We have adapted to our respective environments. There are many species of animals that have adapted remarkably to their environments and to the keen eye you may even see a sliver of intelligence behind their evolution. Basically, they took what they had and made the most of it. Some primates for example are known to use crude tools to obtain food etc. etc. The fact that our minds developed more than our natural instincts I think was necessary for our own survival. It does not make us special in any way we just did what every other species has done to a certain degree.

[Edwardo Piet]

I agree. I don't see what's so special about intellect or curiosity. I also don't see what's so special about us being able to contemplate this. "Special"? It just came about like all other life did.... and culture came on top of it too. It's all evolution - whether it's biological or cultural (with us, it's ultimately both of course).

I know, evolution is a fine process and a quite fascinating phenomenon. But love is something very trancendant of that and of the mere human mind.

Prove that.

I understand love to be an emotion or combination of emotions.

EvF