Eternal punishment is pointless.

[KevinM1]

It will take me time to read and digest this 49 page thread, so here is my contribution to this discussion just by reading the OP.

Every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred.

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. We have two simple options, repent or go-to-hell.

How is eternal punishment possibly justified for a lifetime - which is, by definition, finite - of sins?

How is this eternal punishment justified at all when it's a shitty deterrent (we don't all know that hell is waiting for us) and when it's impossible to be used as a way to correct behavior (we're already dead, and like the name says, it's eternal punishment)?

How are the sinners suffering this eternal torture fully cognizant of their failures? Would a worshipper of Vishnu, who, apparently picked the wrong god, be one of these people? What about the myriad aboriginal peoples living on this planet?

Why would an all-loving god continue to create billions of people that are destined (due to geography, at the very least) to go to hell?

...methinks you haven't really thought about it.

[Chad32]

Because he holds a grudge for eternity. Also he's always right by default for...reasons, and it's not like you can really do anything about it anyway. The important thing is that he loves you, and wants to save you...from himself.

[KevinM1]

Because he holds a grudge for eternity. Also he's always right by default for...reasons, and it's not like you can really do anything about it anyway. The important thing is that he loves you, and wants to save you...from himself.

It's funny. I'm actually not too familiar with the scripture. I went through the kid's version of most of the OT stories in preparation of my first communion, but never went through all of it. I didn't have my first communion until much later in the hospital, when I was recovering from surgery when I was about 13 years old. I haven't actually read through the actual bible because I never had a real reason to.

So, imagine my laughter when, while doing a little research to verify some things I knew from other sources (those kid's books, my parents, talking to followers, etc.), I saw that on the very first page it described how god created this that and the other, and that it was good because god was good.

First. Friggin'. Page.

It's hilarious. God's good simply because the bible says he is. That's it. We need to take the bible's word for it.

How do people believe such tripe? I mean, really. Putting aside everything else, the first page is literally "God is good, just because." That's your opening? That's your hook? And a couple pages later humanity is punished with suffering because Eve ate a fruit from a tree that really shouldn't have been there? And, a couple pages after that, Cain kills Abel because god was a dick and didn't react favorably to his sacrifice after fawning over Abel's?

I get that there's generations of cultural momentum behind Christianity. I get that people hear this stuff from those they trust when they're young, so it's treated like truth from the get go. But, looking at it from a somewhat outsider's POV, I'm just flabbergasted. This is why people go to war? This is why there's an active movement to make our kids dumb? This crap that, from page 1, has no validity or internal consistency?

[Chad32]

How ironic it is, that Jesus says you will know them by their fruits. We see actions in the bible that a modern audience would find repulsive, and history is replete with violence in the name of this "loving" god. Not only to non believers, but warring between themselves over how to interpret the same book. It is very hard to figure out who the "true believers" are, since you can find verses that justify pretty much anything you already believe. The bible is all encompassing, from mass murderers to pacifists.

[Ravenshire]

Lots of people keep themselves from doing bad things to other people. That's the defining point of being a good person.

I'd like to meet them cause I haven't met any yet.

Quit hanging out with other christers.

---

The christer gawd with it's eternal punishment strikes me as indistinguishable from an abusive spouse.

"Love me or I'll kill you, bitch!" ~Abusive spouse

"Love me or I'll send you to a place of eternal torment, puny human!" ~Gawd

And please, enough with the "gawd doesn't send you anywhere" bullshit. I've heard from enough christers that gawd will be judging me after I die to know you're full of shit (and probably don't even believe it yourself) when you say it.

[Schwa]

C'mon, guys. You all know the answer. "'God' is 'special', and thus can do whatever He wants with zero explainations or accountability."

[IATIA]

... And, a couple pages after that, Cain kills Abel because god was a dick and didn't react favorably to his sacrifice after fawning over Abel's?

If you ever get around to reading the OT, you will find that "gawd" loves nothing better than a good fresh bar-b-que. There is no better way to get on "gawd's" good side.

(Does that mean he is a Texan?)

[Esquilax]

Every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred.

I don't think I deserve hell, so does that mean I'm safe? Or is god just going to mind-rape me into thinking something I wouldn't ordinarily think so that I can be my own tormentor, putting the onus of what happens to me in hell right back on god where it belongs?

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. We have two simple options, repent or go-to-hell.

Speak for yourself. You do not get to tell me what I know.