Obesity: five facts

[rexbeccarox]

You guys kill me. Seriously. Most of you will be the first to say Homosexuality is a genetically controlled (even though the gay gene remains ellusive) but will over look the fact that there are 7 documented genes that directly effect weight and one's predisposition for caloric intake and storage of fat.

While being obese may not be in vogue as being gay is, but it does indeed hold the genetic pedagree gay people are trying to use to justify their life styles.

If you can make allowances for homosexuals in soceity sighting a genetic predisposition, then you should make allowances for the fatties as well. Because if one (unknown/unknowable) mystry gene can make one deny the sum total of trillions of years of evolutionary mandates, then one who has 7 genes telling them the NEED the second piece of pie, can't possibly stand a chance.

I suppose your confirmation bias won't allow you to see that the difference is that being gay isn't bad for one's health the way being obese is.

[Aractus]

Maybe you did not understand what I meant. I am a bodybuilder
my world is all about dieting, not a day goes by that I don't count my cals or my macros.

You obviously didn't understand my post. And you think that your world and the rules you've learned about long-term weight maintenance apply to obese people: they don't.

Simply put, when calories in (what you eat) are greater than calories out (what you burn/exercise off), you gain scale weight. The same is true for scale weight loss: Calories in are less than calories out. Maintenance occurs when the two are equivalent.

I used to believe that, but it's 100% WRONG. All the peer review literature says so, and I went into quite some detail to explain why.

I got down to 6.2 % Body fat then I did a bulk, now I am cutting again.
It's not hard to do, people just need to do it.

Again, you really don't know what you're talking about. Body fat is generally 87% lipid.

Let's take your numbers - let's assume your starting body fat percentage before training was 20%. After much intensive training and tight Calorie control you get down to 6.2%. The fact is that you did not burn one single adipocyte. What you did is burn the fatty lipids stored in the adipocytes. The connective tissue itself (the adipose tissue) is still there and there is still the same quantity of it by number of adipocyte cells.

Let's take it the opposite way, say you're a healthy fit normal person with a body fat percentage of 20%, and you get overweight. and now the percentage is 25%. What usually happens is that you still have the same number of adipocytes the same quantity of adipose tissue, but you've increased the amount of lipid stored from 87% to 109% (don't worry the adipocytes expand to make room, and they can keep expanding for some time). You have not yet gone beyond the capacity of your pre-existing adiopose tissue.

But once you get obese then we see people at that point about 50% of people have increased their adipose tissue quantity, and as you get larger still there is a much greater chance that your body has now produced new adipose tissue that didn't exist before. The tissue is essentially permanent, and there's a certain amount of lipid that your body wants to store in the adipocytes. So if you're an obese person and you lose weight, your body tells you you're starving - you're going to feel terrible - and ultimately wants to put the weight back on.

When you lose weight you will feel better about yourself and you once you are used to that lifestyle you will feel better in every other way.
That's the truth.!!!!!

No it isn't. What happens with obese people is their hormones change to make them constantly feel hungry and consequently they'll feel terrible. Why do you think around 50% of people who get bariatric surgery re-stretch their stomachs?

[KichigaiNeko]

Congrats on the grade Daniel!

Very interesting thread.

[Ryantology]

Maybe you did not understand what I meant. I am a bodybuilder
my world is all about dieting, not a day goes by that I don't count my cals or my macros. Simply put, when calories in (what you eat) are greater than calories out (what you burn/exercise off), you gain scale weight. The same is true for scale weight loss: Calories in are less than calories out. Maintenance occurs when the two are equivalent.
I got down to 6.2 % Body fat then I did a bulk, now I am cutting again.
It's not hard to do, people just need to do it.

You're overweight. You're 5'10'' and you decide to climb on a scale one day. Or, perhaps your favorite pair of pants no longer fits. It's kind of scary either way. You say, no way, I just need to do it and lose weight.

You try to exercise. You don't want to take it easy because you have a lot of weight to lose, and what the hell, just do it. Say, you get on a stationary bike and go at it for a half hour. You even do it at a fairly good pace, because you feel like you can. And you do it! You make that half hour! And then, you feel miserable afterwards. You feel tired and you feel sore, perhaps so much that you don't want to do it again.

You decide, instead, to get a gym membership. Maybe the bike just isn't for you, and maybe other machines would be better. And you stop going after three or four sessions, because you see all those toned, fit people all around you and you understand that you're an outsider in their world. You don't belong here. You know it and they know it (or so you think). You see every set of eyes on your soft, jiggling flesh as you use the stairmaster. You see everybody else around you going faster on the treadmill, lifting more weight on the machines. You don't see jiggles or rolls on the other people. And you still feel sore and disgusting. You don't belong here.

You decide, okay, maybe it's not really the exercise. I'm going to start eating less. And, you do. You decide, even, to eat something healthy, some lean, baked chicken and some vegetables. Only, your body is used to a high calorie intake, and those empty calories just don't do it for you. You eat this food, which you might not eat often and perhaps don't even enjoy, and you feel just as hungry an hour later. And you eat something bad. And then you feel bad about eating something bad. You feel like nothing you're doing is helping.

You feel alone, too embarrassed to seek out the help of someone else, and unable to do it without the help. You feel hopeless. You've been trying to be good about dieting and exercise, but after a month, you've lost nothing. Or worse, you lost five pounds and now they're back, and you haven't done anything wrong. And, you feel that everybody else would just make fun of you for failing, because after all, isn't it your fault you're like this?

No, it's not just as simple as 'just do it', unless your world is already all about dieting.

[Aractus]

Pretty good post Ryantology, the only thing I would have added is that there is physiological difference between a non-obese person and an obese person following weight-loss that makes it easier for the non-obese person to achieve long-term success relatively easily. I think this is what really needs to be acknowledged is the fact that there is a significant difference.

Also, just because some body-builders and other athletes consciously control their kcal intake doesn't mean that it's healthy to do so. It can lead to eating disorders if you're ignoring your body's signals to eat.

[Drich]

You guys kill me. Seriously. Most of you will be the first to say Homosexuality is a genetically controlled (even though the gay gene remains ellusive) but will over look the fact that there are 7 documented genes that directly effect weight and one's predisposition for caloric intake and storage of fat.

While being obese may not be in vogue as being gay is, but it does indeed hold the genetic pedagree gay people are trying to use to justify their life styles.

If you can make allowances for homosexuals in soceity sighting a genetic predisposition, then you should make allowances for the fatties as well. Because if one (unknown/unknowable) mystry gene can make one deny the sum total of trillions of years of evolutionary mandates, then one who has 7 genes telling them the NEED the second piece of pie, can't possibly stand a chance.

I suppose your confirmation bias won't allow you to see that the difference is that being gay isn't bad for one's health the way being obese is.

Why not just say obese is gross and gross will never be accepted? Stop pretending it is about anything other than that.

[rexbeccarox]

I suppose your confirmation bias won't allow you to see that the difference is that being gay isn't bad for one's health the way being obese is.

Why not just say obese is gross and gross will never be accepted? Stop pretending it is about anything other than that.

There are obese people in my family whom I love more than anything. I worry about their fucking health, not whether they're gross or not.

Seriously, fuck you and your strawman, Drich.

[The Grand Nudger]

Just anecdotal, but I'll put it out there -

When I got out of RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program) I weighed 175lbs at 6'3. This was down from 240lbs in just 6 months (I'd been encouraged to put on weight all through highschool so as to better get in peoples way on the field..lol). I heard no end of "you look great, you must feel great" comments (except from my family...who figured I looked like a walking skeleton, which I did...you can almost see the outline of individual teeth through my cheeks in my grad pictures).

I didn't feel great. I felt like shit all the time, I was hungry all the time - and I was hospitalized twice in a year for some non specific and never quite figured out problems. Over the course of the next year I put 35lbs back on - despite no reduction in the intensity or duration of my PT. I was just hungry. I've been hungry all the time ever since the weight came off and it's been slowly creeping back up on my ass, literally, ever since. Amusingly, as I gained weight I felt better and better. I leveled out at 210 for the better part of a decade and my chronic fatigue, soreness (and murmers) just disappeared. I've put on more weight since, up at 220ish now....and I eat very well (steamed fish and veggies), I just eat alot. I've pretty much given in to the fact that my body is trying to tank me, to send me back to 245 - and that ultimately it's going to win this fight because it knows every trick in the damned book...and is also, conveniently, at the levers of my desires.

The most I can reasonably expect is to slow it's inexorable march to obesity. I've been informed that I'm already on the precipice by armchair experts with their generalized ideal weights and bmi calcs- gg body. Same people that would call an Auschwitz survivor "fit" imo. Dicks. I've mentioned that I wanted to lose weight to those close to me. Some of them say "well just do what you did in the service". No thanks, I'd rather be awake and not in pain at 210, or 220.....hell, even 245.

[Aractus]

Why not just say obese is gross and gross will never be accepted? Stop pretending it is about anything other than that.

How about because it's not caused by individual choices and it's not their fault that they become obese.

You do know, don't you, that there has been a rise in the number obese six month olds - are you really telling me you think six-month old babies that become obese are "gross" or are in some way to blame for their obesity?

---

The most I can reasonably expect is to slow it's inexorable march to obesity. I've been informed that I'm already on the precipice by armchair experts with their generalized ideal weights and bmi calcs- gg body. Same people that would call an Auschwitz survivor "fit" imo. Dicks. I've mentioned that I wanted to lose weight to those close to me. Some of them say "well just do what you did in the service". No thanks, I'd rather be awake and not in pain at 210, or 220.....hell, even 245.

There are things you can do to decrease your weight overtime, but it takes a lot of effort, it's very slow, it isn't easy, and it's expensive. The number on thing - according to the science I've read - would be to reconfigure your diet to be based around veggies, meat, and nuts, and have two to three servings of fresh fruit per day (or just one if you're diabetic). Don't bother restricting Calories. Avoid grains - especially wheat and corn, rice may not be as bad for humans - it is believed that over-consumption of grains can lead to long-term weight gain. More importantly avoid all refined sugars - don't eat anything that has added sugar. If nothing else, those changes should - according to the science I've seen - stop a person from gaining more weight long-term.

The other thing you can do is stop eating before you're full. If you eat a bit less than you need and then wait 20 minutes, the leptin hormone will still be released as normal, and you should be able to go about the rest of your day without feeling too hungry.

Or, get bariatric surgery - unfortunately it is really the only medically recognised option that works and is safe and healthy. You can take up smoking or use cocaine and other drugs to suppress hunger, but that's far from being a healthy option! I believe in the future there will be an effective drug without the horrible side effects of class-a narcotics and nicotine, or that obesity will be treated with leptin injections like diabetes is treated with insulin injections. But at the moment there's no such option.

And if you improve your fitness your appetite might decrease as well. From what I've read I certainly can't promise it's true, but I believe it is and if nothing else fitness has other therapeutic benefits.

[Manowar]

Maybe you did not understand what I meant. I am a bodybuilder
my world is all about dieting, not a day goes by that I don't count my cals or my macros. Simply put, when calories in (what you eat) are greater than calories out (what you burn/exercise off), you gain scale weight. The same is true for scale weight loss: Calories in are less than calories out. Maintenance occurs when the two are equivalent.
I got down to 6.2 % Body fat then I did a bulk, now I am cutting again.
It's not hard to do, people just need to do it.

You're overweight. You're 5'10'' and you decide to climb on a scale one day. Or, perhaps your favorite pair of pants no longer fits. It's kind of scary either way. You say, no way, I just need to do it and lose weight.

You try to exercise. You don't want to take it easy because you have a lot of weight to lose, and what the hell, just do it. Say, you get on a stationary bike and go at it for a half hour. You even do it at a fairly good pace, because you feel like you can. And you do it! You make that half hour! And then, you feel miserable afterwards. You feel tired and you feel sore, perhaps so much that you don't want to do it again.

You decide, instead, to get a gym membership. Maybe the bike just isn't for you, and maybe other machines would be better. And you stop going after three or four sessions, because you see all those toned, fit people all around you and you understand that you're an outsider in their world. You don't belong here. You know it and they know it (or so you think). You see every set of eyes on your soft, jiggling flesh as you use the stairmaster. You see everybody else around you going faster on the treadmill, lifting more weight on the machines. You don't see jiggles or rolls on the other people. And you still feel sore and disgusting. You don't belong here.

You decide, okay, maybe it's not really the exercise. I'm going to start eating less. And, you do. You decide, even, to eat something healthy, some lean, baked chicken and some vegetables. Only, your body is used to a high calorie intake, and those empty calories just don't do it for you. You eat this food, which you might not eat often and perhaps don't even enjoy, and you feel just as hungry an hour later. And you eat something bad. And then you feel bad about eating something bad. You feel like nothing you're doing is helping.

You feel alone, too embarrassed to seek out the help of someone else, and unable to do it without the help. You feel hopeless. You've been trying to be good about dieting and exercise, but after a month, you've lost nothing. Or worse, you lost five pounds and now they're back, and you haven't done anything wrong. And, you feel that everybody else would just make fun of you for failing, because after all, isn't it your fault you're like this?

No, it's not just as simple as 'just do it', unless your world is already all about dieting.

Sorry Ryan, it is as easy as "Just do it" That's what did. I decided on my diet and went to the gym, not to mention I e-mailed with some doctors, who are body builders to get any help I could. I did not look good when I started, you bleed too much.

Also i was speaking of myself and others that are not that fat. When I started out I was about 18% BF ( nearest i can figure) not even close to what Aractus was saying in his post.

People love excuses not to get in shape but an average out of shape person can do it if they really decide to do it. I love sweets but avoid now, so what. What about fat people eating better foods lots of veggies instead of apple pie. Be consistent on diet and exercise and in no time wonderful things can happen.