I think...

[Watson]

...a good book for some of you to read would be Joshua by Joseph Girzone(sp?). It's very good for understanding Jesus' message and the differentiations between chuch and God as a figure. It's a good read for Christians and atheists alike, and I'd urge some of you to check it out.

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but oh well, I wanted to post it somewhere.

[Purple Rabbit]

Divine moral shows itself in Genesis 22:

7 And Isaac spoke unto Abraham his father, and said: 'My father.' And he said: 'Here am I, my son.' And he said: 'Behold the fire and the wood; but where is the lamb for a burnt-offering?'

Anyone with a heart in the right place can judge this for himself. Is this the moral we want to adopt? There really is no room for metaphorical dodging here, this is clearly abject moral. It fills me with a feeling of nausea.

[Minimalist]

It's very good for understanding Jesus' message

Uh-huh...yet if there was no 'jesus' then this so-called message is nothing more than a lot of made-up shit by hucksters, isn't it?


I keep looking for evidence of this so-called jesus but he only seems to exist in the self-serving writings of his followers.

[Watson]

How 'bout you guys actually go read the book and then tell me what you make of it, huh? Minimalist, even if Jesus is not real, it doesn't detract from his message at all...the message stands alone from the man, but he lives the message.

[Minimalist]

Watson, let me try this in simpler language for you.


If jesus was not "real" then he had no message.

[Watson]

Minimalist, let me try this in simpler language for you.

Jesus =/= his own message. In other words, the message itself is real, even if the man is not.

[Tiberius]

What is the point of the message if the man isn't real? I understand how a message can stand despite the original author not being known, but the point of Jesus' message was that *he* was the son of God, and this was God speaking through him. If Jesus didn't exist, then the message is no longer from the son of God (or someone claiming to be), it is simply a message from an unknown guy.

Sure, the message might still be nice ("let's love each other!"), but it drops from a commandment from a creator to a philosophical point from a teacher. I contend that the two are pretty different things...

[Minimalist]

Watson....If fucking 'jesus' is not REAL then the fucking message is not HIS.

Some other asshole made it all up to sell it to gullible fools.


You worship a fraud.

[Watson]

Haha, it's like a little kid screaming at his mom to give him something. Awesome. I wont even bother.

Adrian, you might actually get a kick out of the book Joshua. I do understand what you're saying, that the point of Jesus' message was that he was God incarnate and therefore, His message was a commandmant.

But basically what God was 'saying' through Jesus is "I'm not too high and mighty to join my creations and walk among them." Basically, even if the entire story of Jesus was fabricated, it's still one big demonstration of how God works, on a more grandiose scale than the other stories in the Bible. Jesus, the man, was basically walking among us to show that we could live in peace, love, and harmony if only we put the effort in to do so.

[Purple Rabbit]

Fascinating stuff on how the religious mind works. I love it.