Garden of Eden was a setup...

[Lek]

Arguing the Bible period is meaningless...

I guess it beats sitting around twiddling your thumbs.

[Chad32]

Believing in something really hard doesn't make it true. You judge his words, and we judge his actions, and actions tend to speak louder than words.

[Peebothuhlu]

Arguing the Bible period is meaningless...

I guess it beats sitting around twiddling your thumbs.

Well... people can sit around debating and thinking about the world/reality around them.

I believe this is called 'Philosophy'?

THEN, then can think of ways to test and match their thoughts and ideas to see which ones are closest to actually being correct in comparison to reality/the world and can thence be used to make useful predictions and maybe lead to even more thinking about the answers such investigations made which in turn might lead to even more questions which then need thinking about for answers.

I believe this is called 'Science'?

Much cheers to all.

[Esquilax]

I've come to an epiphany Esquilax! I do assume God's position is superior because I believe that the bible is true. Since I believe that he is loving, just, all-knowing, etc., then everything he does is right. I believe that his act of salvation for us all was his supreme act of love for mankind. I believe that at the end of time we'll be with him and will understand in a way that we can't as humans on this earth. This is what the bible teaches and this is what I believe. We can't understand the mind of God and, therefore, are unequipped to judge his actions.

Well, then we're kinda done: you're operating from an unfair and self refuting presupposition, and I am not. So I can't really convince you of anything, and you're not rationally justified in anything you say. But if we're not equipped to judge the actions of god, then you're equally not equipped to judge his actions good, or evil, or anything. So anything you say about god being loving, or kind, or morally right... your own argument prevents you from making such claims. Therefore either your claim is wrong, in which case we can judge god's actions and you'd need to actually listen to an argument from a non-believer, or you are wrong in making the judgments of god that you are.

Not to mention, the bible was written by humans... which you just got through saying were unable to judge the mind of god. So the things written in the bible, which you use as the basis for your judgments of the mind of god, are just as flawed and inaccurate as any judgment I would make about the guy. Therefore, the entire basis of your position crumbles.

But in the end, this wasn't really an argument you were making, was it? It was just a way for you to make the opposition stop talking, by stating up front that you're discarding everything they're saying. That's why it's so blatantly full of special pleading; you wanted everyone else to stop judging god- where they disagreed with you- while allowing yourself to judge god as much as you want. It really is quite an unfair system you're working under there, so I'm glad it was so easy to deconstruct.

[Minimalist]

I've come to an epiphany Esquilax! I do assume God's position is superior because I believe that the bible is true.

At least you now know where the problem lies.

[IATIA]

I believe God put the tree there as a test. God would have known as he is all-knowning. However Adam and Eve were not all-knowing they didn't know what the outcome was until they took the fruit.

So let me get this straight. This "all-knowing" god created Adam and Eve so that they could be tested, knowing beforehand that they would fail.

Wait .. wait! I know this one, "The mystery of god". NOT

[professor]

Lek did a nice job of presenting logic to you guys (Oh wait- that's the word we aren't supposed to use).
But I have a couple of cents to throw into the hat.

Eve was deceived but Adam was not. He strode into the mess fully knowing his error.

An interesting thought was presented about that last year- Adam was unwilling to be separated from his bride, therefore he joined her.
In the same way the second Adam- Christ was unwilling to be separated from His bride/people, so He joined us, was made to be sin FOR us- to redeem us.

Everyone here would have failed Adam's test at some point BECAUSE we fail
in the tests we face everyday.
The only way the Garden was a set-up was the outcome was pre-known.

Haven't you atheist had any kids?

You tell them- Do NOT go in the street. That street is dangerous.
And still you watch them because you do not trust their judgment.

Were any of you dutiful obedient children?
Give me a break.
We are not good moral agents- we are free moral agents.
We choose self-centeredness like gravity befalls apples.
Every one of us blow it.
Stop laying the blame on Adam.

[IATIA]

Lek did a nice job of presenting logic to you guys ...

[GrandizerII]

Lek did a nice job of presenting logic to you guys ...

Shaking my head in disbelief ...

[Chad32]

And when my nieces do something wrong, despite what I tell them, I don't throw them out and abandon them. I don't make them suffer until they beg me to take them back. I also don't kill some innocent person in order to forgive them.

Yes we've had children, and we usually treat them better than Yahweh does. Mostly because we're aware that children learn what words mean long before they understand why we tell them things. For that reason they're not held accountable for their actions.

Don't worry. I don't blame Adam. I don't even blame Eve. I blame Yahweh.