Evolutionary biology adopting religious traits

[Gawdzilla]

A large part of the world celebrates Newton's Birthday, they just call it "Christmas".

[Aoi Magi]

Thus the part where I explicitly chose not to use the word 'religion' and replaced it with 'dharma'. You have a dharma - it is your coherent worldview. Secular humanism, Christianity, Neopaganism and various other isms are all dharmas.

Where do you get "dharma" as a "worldview"? Dharma is an initiative from the LOST series, also it sometimes mean "eternal law of the universe" or "inherent nature of things".

Dharma, isn't about religion. The word originated in ancient hinduism where the word was essentially used to define their duties according to their social positions. Basically the term meant what chores they were supposed to do in their daily lives.

I'm not equating them - they are obviously not the same. I'm grouping them. Science isn't a religion, it's a method for proposing and testing hypotheses. Atheism is a nonbelief. Yet there are people who use atheism and scientific ideas as the basis for their dharma. For them, atheism isn't a non-belief, it's their Position.

I think you are a bit confused with your grouping logic. You see, groups are made with things which have something in common. Atheism is a position alright but it is the neutral position, which pretty much translates to a null or empty set because unlike religion, it isn't claiming anything, it is simply verifying the claims presented to it by religion.

Now speaking of worldview, science is based on logic, and yes there are people who base their decisions on logic, I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?

If you meant the worldview of those people who don't understand science and logic yet talk about science as if they know it better than scientists, well, I don't know, I just think they are morons.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Taking down the Ten Commandments in a government building is not an expression of atheism. It is requiring the government to abide its own Constitution.

That some atheists attach their self-identity to positive atheism speak volumes about them. But not all, or even most (I suspect), do so.

Some like group organization and activity, and others don't. The wise person is cautious about generalizing from small samples, understanding that their representative significance is directly proportional to their sample size.

[Gawdzilla]

Taking down the Ten Commandments in a government building is not an expression of atheism. It is requiring the government to abide its own Constitution.

That some atheists attach their self-identity to positive atheism speak volumes about them. But not all, or even most (I suspect), do so.

Some like group organization and activity, and others don't. The wise person is cautious about generalizing from small samples, understanding that their representative significance is directly proportional to their sample size.

Bingo. They like to throw the Establishment Clause around, but they only want it to be read one way, the way that benefits them.

[tantric]

I get my usage of 'dharma' from extensive readings on comparitive religion. If it pleases you, Wikipedia:

Other uses include dharma, normally spelled in transliteration with a small "d" (this differentiation is impossible in the South Asian scripts used to write Sanskrit), which refers to a phenomenon or constituent factor of human experience. This was gradually expanded into a classification of constituents of the entire material and mental world.

It's part of the English language, just like Tao, jihad and kami. I was actually inspired by a Hindu physicists, talking about the dharma of electrons. Hell, my ferret's name is 'Ahimsa Dharma' (the lesson of nonviolence), 'cause ferrets, despite being horribly destructive, don't have a mean or hateful bone in their bodies.

Where are you, right now, in cyberspace? I don't believe in vampires, but I'd never label myself as an avampirist or visit a website devoted to such things. Look at the forum - the one on top, what does it say? 'Community'. That's your tribe, defined by the shared core belief. It unites people from all backgrounds, just like religions do. Look - there are people in the world who form personal relations with blow-up dolls. They groom them, talk to them, live with them, boff them. And they actually love their dolls. Blow up dolls and human beings are nothing alike, but there is a gap in the human psyche, and it can apparently be filled by either.

Get it? When you take away a religion, you don't get an empty slate. You don't just stop believing or having a worldview. There exists in most human mentalities a 'slot' for a dharma. Like the slot for 'significant other' it has baggage, both cultural and sociobiological. Simply put, atheism, as a part of the dharma called 'Secular Humanism', will inevitably take on the characteristics of a religion as it gains widespread acceptance in the developed world. There will be holidays*, hero figures, rituals, canons, dogma, heretics, the lot. Eventually there will be Folk Humanism, a collection of esoteric beliefs devoid of the underlying scientific principles. It's just part of how societies work. Fortunately, mosts of those beliefs will be true and useful, but that's probably just the workings of cultural evolution - if rationalism is actually more useful than superstition, as one would hope, it has to happen.

So here's to the future. People will still live in a world of magic, surrounded by powerful forces that can't begin to comprehend. They will still ritualize their behaviors as a means of dealing with these forces, repeating actions that yield positive results, in the way it's always been. Powerful sorcerer-priests who delve into the deep mysteries will hand down the Law, and the people will accept it on faith.

BTW, I spent three years as a PhD candidate in wildlife epidemiology, which is a hard science. Even though I only had a BA in Japanese, I was admitted to the program and given a two year full ride scholarship based on my post-bacc work and GRE scores. After I left the program, I found a hack that lets me continue to have access to journals, cause I just couldn't function without it. I'm *not* a layman.

*Or we may stick with the Consumer Pagan holidays. We've been adding those steadily, like Valentine's Day.

[IATIA]

I don't believe in vampires, but I'd never label myself as an avampirist or visit a website devoted to such things.

And yet, here you are.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I disagree with the claim that atheism will inevitably lead to a religious sort of organization. Such a claim doesn't take into account the many varieties of atheism, and as a result implicitly asserts that humans are slaves to ideals.

Some are. Some aren't. And they cannot be discerned by claimed belief or disbelief.

I wonder if you'd feel comfortable with a non-Buddhist making broad claims about what the alleged implications of your beliefs mean to you.

[Aoi Magi]

I get my usage of 'dharma' from extensive readings on comparitive religion. If it pleases you, Wikipedia:

Other uses include dharma, normally spelled in transliteration with a small "d" (this differentiation is impossible in the South Asian scripts used to write Sanskrit), which refers to a phenomenon or constituent factor of human experience. This was gradually expanded into a classification of constituents of the entire material and mental world.

Wikipedia? really?? That explains a lot actually. But again, the word originates from ancient hinduism and is in sanskrit. If you are gonna use a foreign word in place of an english word, at least use the proper meaning of the word.

It's part of the English language, just like Tao, jihad and kami. I was actually inspired by a Hindu physicists, talking about the dharma of electrons. Hell, my ferret's name is 'Ahimsa Dharma' (the lesson of nonviolence), 'cause ferrets, despite being horribly destructive, don't have a mean or hateful bone in their bodies.

Writing a word with english alphabets doesn't make it a part of the English language, those are still foreign words and their meanings are still tied to their origin. As for your ferret, it's your pet, name it whatever you want as long as it doesn't sue you. But weirdly enough, some monks raising tigers claim the same thing about their pets, guess all pets are non-hateful, huh?

Where are you, right now, in cyberspace? I don't believe in vampires, but I'd never label myself as an avampirist or visit a website devoted to such things. Look at the forum - the one on top, what does it say? 'Community'. That's your tribe, defined by the shared core belief.

We all use google, so are we all google tribe now? But seriously, this argument is pretty much the same as "why do you pick on christianity and not other religions?". Theism is a big thing which most of the world is taught to be real from infancy, Vampirism isn't a thing, nor is it shoved down everyone's throats. If it were, you would see avampirists as well.

Get it? When you take away a religion, you don't get an empty slate. You don't just stop believing or having a worldview. There exists in most human mentalities a 'slot' for a dharma. Like the slot for 'significant other' it has baggage, both cultural and sociobiological. Simply put, atheism, as a part of the dharma called 'Secular Humanism', will inevitably take on the characteristics of a religion as it gains widespread acceptance in the developed world. There will be holidays*, hero figures, rituals, canons, dogma, heretics, the lot. Eventually there will be Folk Humanism, a collection of esoteric beliefs devoid of the underlying scientific principles. It's just part of how societies work. Fortunately, mosts of those beliefs will be true and useful, but that's probably just the workings of cultural evolution - if rationalism is actually more useful than superstition, as one would hope, it has to happen.

No dude, when you take away religion/theism there is no a-theism either. Sure there will be holidays, those don't need religions anyway, like the 4th of July. Hero figures? my dad & mom are my heroes and they don't have anything to do with theism or atheism. Rituals? Now that depends on your definition, even going to the office everyday at the same time can be termed ritualistic. Rest of that stuff....try taking off your religious goggles and look at the world for once...

So here's to the future. People will still live in a world of magic, surrounded by powerful forces that can't begin to comprehend. They will still ritualize their behaviors as a means of dealing with these forces, repeating actions that yield positive results, in the way it's always been. Powerful sorcerer-priests who delve into the deep mysteries will hand down the Law, and the people will accept it on faith.

Did you fall down the stairs or something? Sleep-deprived? You need some rest man.

BTW, I spent three years as a PhD candidate in wildlife epidemiology, which is a hard science. Even though I only had a BA in Japanese, I was admitted to the program and given a two year full ride scholarship based on my post-bacc work and GRE scores. After I left the program, I found a hack that lets me continue to have access to journals, cause I just couldn't function without it. I'm *not* a layman.

*Or we may stick with the Consumer Pagan holidays. We've been adding those steadily, like Valentine's Day.

Again, we are not discussing your educational qualifications. Brilliant scientists of the past believed in weird shit, that doesn't make it everything they say to be true. Argument from authority works in the religious world not in the scientific world.

[Minimalist]

it mentioned Darwin more often than the Old Testament mentions God.

Darwin is more important than god. At least he has the advantage of being real.

[Alex K]

Your point is still unclear to me. Society always works based on a certain level of mutual trust - the general population trusts the architects to erect buildings which do not immediately collapse. There are measures in place to check their work. In the similar way, scientists produce scientific knowledge, often attached with degrees of belief, which are reevaluated again and again, and checks and balances are also in place. Religious belief does not figure into this any more than in other aspects of public life. You could just as well muse about there being a religious cult of bridges because we dare cross them based on trust in their engineers and regulations. Your use of hindu words or concepts to mean *something* doesn't make your point clearer. Like, what exactly would you like to change?