Detecting design or intent in nature

[Chili]

Our Original Sin equals Plato's State of Oblivion, and therefore shepherds are good news, and are good news without even saying a thing. They just give us a sense of belonging so we will know where the manger is at. That is the only reason for this and then please know that the manger was missing in Matthew as an early foreshadow that hell will be destiny for him.

Limbo would be with no shepherds to guide the us, and that comes with communion with the saints in heaven to show direction for us, also again without saying a word.

Original Sin does not equal sinful, and shepherds also are inside the Cave with only a connection to the outside and therefore can be our guide.

Of course they are allegory but be reminded here that we are the illusion our self, as in each one of us while inside the cave.

The shepherds in the Gospels merely were insights in the mind of Joseph the Jew, but that is not part of the argument here.

Okay this time I understand what it is you are trying to say. I can't imagine how you get that out of the Bible, Christianity, or Plato. I does does sound vaguely Gnostic though.

Yes I know, but that also makes the Gnostics an illegitimate group because the -ism does not belong in the same way as the -ity does not belong to the word Christian.

I don't know what you have against suffixes, but there's nothing illegitimate philosophically or etymologically about words that use them. "Ism" is just a suffix used in the English language for forming nouns of action, state, condition, and especially doctrine. So Gnosticism if you translated its roots literally would be a state or condition of having knowledge or a doctrine concerning knowledge. But words change meaning over time. And Gnosticism means something a little more specific than that.

"-Ity" has even less specific meaning than "ism." It means roughly having the quality of, being, or being like, or being collectively. It's a perfectly reasonable suffix to use with Christ to describe people attempting to follow Christ.

Oh I see. Please know dear that I have nothing against the suffix -ism and -ity except that they cannot belong to certain words.

Gnostic here equals omniscient or all-knowing and that only means to know your own self. This is equal to the mind of Christ and that would be on earth. In Buddhism he would be called arahant and also a sage. And do not get mixed up here with Iman because that is a social role only.

So now to say Gnosticism is like saying 'sageism' or pregnantism as that would be the same and just cannot be.

And please understand that gnostic does not mean "we know something" because we all do but are not gnostic. Maybe, just maybe, you cannot perceive that at the top wisdom is the same for all people and is where all religions meet and are one, except for Protestantism and Islam that are runaways with only snippets of truth and can never reach Nirvana or Heaven on earth that the Greeks called Gnostic and reside in Elysium that we would call heaven on earth.

That is the problem with protestants who call themselves Christian, also known as the anti-Christ in Christendom.

And you do not have to believe anything I write, but I am just telling you how it is.

Let's just call "the mind of Christ" the end that we seek where gnosis would be ours, and would that not make Gnosticism and Christianity a denial of that and a contradiction in terms?

Let's not. If I understand you correctly you think that if you know the mind of Christ you have the ultimate knowledge and that that is what you seek. Sounds like a brand of Gnosticism to me. However, I don't see how such a pursuit would make Gnosticism or Christianity contradiction in terms (the idea makes me wonder if you know what a contradiction is terms is). But, as I don't believe in god or the Jesus was Christ, or that there is such ultimate knowledge, I won't be seeking it. I'll leave you to it.

No, just opposite. So called self proclaimed Christian is like Gnosticism
and they will always read that stupid book that they carry in their right hand but do not understand any of it, and worse yet, they will bomb the wrong counties again and again because their Jesus will not come back. They are total idiots and I am probable more anti-christian than anyone here.

Always remember that Catholics are sinners and then let me add that in America Catholics are not Catholic like we were, with not a protestant ever to be seen. However, they are Catholic but never the same as we were.

It is just philosophy dear, but these words are crucial in seeing the end while we are believers and doubters looking for destiny our self.

It's just nonsense. You are having your own little battle with language. But it doesn't appear to be a battle that produces clarity.

The answer is very simple and that is "know who you are" in the end and that can be called Christian (if you like or not like), but that surely means that religion is not any part of it then = no -ity or -ism for sure.

Now that is a philosophy of sorts. But it has nothing to do with Christianity, or being Christian, which is not to say that some Christians might not seek to know themselves.

Once again? What does any of this have to do with design in nature?

And why do you call yourself Catholic?

Then we are done and thank you. I am not here to convince you of anything, but give my opinion and you do as you please.

[Mudhammam]

Da fuck are you babbling on about?

[Chili]

Da fuck are you babbling on about?

Then read it again if you like. What I write I can back up from here to eternity and back, if you like, and I am very careful with the words that I choose. However, my vocabulary is limited because English is my second language, but I think I am doing just fine.

It just may come as a shock to you that I am more anti-Christian than anyone here. And did you know that the so called "Seven Mountain Movement" has a budget of 1.3 billion per year to prepare for the final battle in the world to get it ready for their Jesus to come back? Just Goggle it and see for yourself.

[robvalue]

I can't interpret very much of this. But as always, I'm surprised by the claim that superstitious people 2000 years ago knew more about the creation and nature of the universe than all of science does today. That is (usually) the religious claim. And of course you need "faith" to believe it, because it makes no sense at all.

I also don't know why people keep trying to produce logical arguments why God exists, because then faith would no longer be required. Lucky for you that everyone fails hard at this, because you're actually endangering your own position more than ours. If proof did come about, atheists would say "how about that!". Christians would say either, "Fuck! We found God and everything we said was wrong!" Or "Fuck! We found God, everything we said was right and now no one needs faith to believe in any of this. And all those ex-atheists still aren't worshiping this genocidal maniac! What have we done?"

Boy I talk some crap sometimes huh. Need to wake the old brain up.

[Chili]

I can't interpret very much of this. But as always, I'm surprised by the claim that superstitious people 2000 years ago knew more about the creation and nature of the universe than all of science does today. That is (usually) the religious claim. And of course you need "faith" to believe it, because it makes no sense at all.

I also don't know why people keep trying to produce logical arguments why God exists, because then faith would no longer be required. Lucky for you that everyone fails hard at this, because you're actually endangering your own position more than ours. If proof did come about, atheists would say "how about that!". Christians would say either, "Fuck! We found God and everything we said was wrong!" Or "Fuck! We found God, everything we said was right and now no one needs faith to believe in any of this. And all those ex-atheists still aren't worshiping this genocidal maniac! What have we done?"

Boy I talk some crap sometimes huh. Need to wake the old brain up.

That is the problem with Christians. They think that there is history in the bible while I am telling you that there is not.

Christians think that there was a baby born at Christmas and Catholics do not see it that way. I am telling you that there is not and so did the ancients. It is the reformation that added the baby, and they added history to the bible. .

Only in America Catholics are called Christians because they need their vote so they can start bombing again, while on Sunday they are not.

Christians say, you must be born again and Catholics do not say that.

Billy Graham would never have an Evangelistic rally without the consent of the local Catholic Diocese because he was after the Catholics only = the scum of the earth and is America's greatest hero, ever. In Europe his rallies always flopped.

In China religion is tolerated but evangelization is not and they just destroyed a church that cost $135 million to built and it took them 4 days to push down just after opening day.

Catholics print a Cathechism for protestants to read as a major book selling event only, so I hear, and have never even seen one myself.

Just so you know.

[FatAndFaithless]

So the pope doesn't consider himself Christian?

[Chili]

So the pope doesn't consider himself Christian?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is the Catholic pope, and a sinner with confessionals to show. The point here is that Catholics are cold and never lukewarm in the saved-sinner complex as follower of Jesus and die nonetheless. They will have their ass on fire for the Lord and must preach the Good News world-wide according to Matthew and Mark where only the Great Commission is ordered, and that are the Gospels where Jesus goes back to Galilee again, as lukewarm, and that would be hell on earth for us.

[FatAndFaithless]

So the pope doesn't consider himself Christian?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is the Catholic pope, and a sinner with confessionals to show.

Funny, because it seems the Pope does consider Catholics (and himself) to be not only Christians, but the real Christians.

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-at-mass-...t-the-chur


The only people that clamour about the Pope or Catholic Church being false Christians or the anti-christ are the born-agains and insane end-days fetishists.

Additionally, it wasn't during the Reformation that the idea of a December 25th nativity was created, that came far, far earlier in Catholic Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#C...er_25_date

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily...christmas/


Also, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Catholics don't think the Bible has any historicity to it.

As a former Catholic, step your damn game up supposedly-currently-catholic.

[Chili]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is the Catholic pope, and a sinner with confessionals to show.

Funny, because it seems the Pope does consider Catholics (and himself) to be not only Christians, but the real Christians.

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-at-mass-...t-the-chur


The only people that clamour about the Pope or Catholic Church being false Christians or the anti-christ are the born-agains and insane end-days fetishists.

Correct, because they do not know what a Christian is as self-proclaimers pretenders going in the exact opposite direction as Catholics.

At best will the pope claim that Catholics are Christians-in-becoming, and then are no longer Catholic.

Just so you know, the confessionals are there to encourage the courageous so that farther West they will go and there, finally, will reach the end of their world, while placing milestone along the way so they will be find their way back to Eden as the point in life they left behind when the became rational beings and decided to go West.

This is what our Labyrinth is about, still today.

And your link is just American vomit.

Point blank: One cannot be a sinner and Christian or there would be a temple in the city of God.

[Brian37]

I can't interpret very much of this. But as always, I'm surprised by the claim that superstitious people 2000 years ago knew more about the creation and nature of the universe than all of science does today. That is (usually) the religious claim. And of course you need "faith" to believe it, because it makes no sense at all.

I also don't know why people keep trying to produce logical arguments why God exists, because then faith would no longer be required. Lucky for you that everyone fails hard at this, because you're actually endangering your own position more than ours. If proof did come about, atheists would say "how about that!". Christians would say either, "Fuck! We found God and everything we said was wrong!" Or "Fuck! We found God, everything we said was right and now no one needs faith to believe in any of this. And all those ex-atheists still aren't worshiping this genocidal maniac! What have we done?"

Boy I talk some crap sometimes huh. Need to wake the old brain up.

That is the problem with Christians. They think that there is history in the bible while I am telling you that there is not.

Christians think that there was a baby born at Christmas and Catholics do not see it that way. I am telling you that there is not and so did the ancients. It is the reformation that added the baby, and they added history to the bible. .

Only in America Catholics are called Christians because they need their vote so they can start bombing again, while on Sunday they are not.

Christians say, you must be born again and Catholics do not say that.

Billy Graham would never have an Evangelistic rally without the consent of the local Catholic Diocese because he was after the Catholics only = the scum of the earth and is America's greatest hero, ever. In Europe his rallies always flopped.

In China religion is tolerated but evangelization is not and they just destroyed a church that cost $135 million to built and it took them 4 days to push down just after opening day.

Catholics print a Cathechism for protestants to read as a major book selling event only, so I hear, and have never even seen one myself.

Just so you know.

Oh my Thor...........Sorry, Catholics and Baptists and Mormons are all CHRISTIANS, you all have the same God of Abraham and have Jesus as your central hero.

This is the same bad logic Muslims use arguing over Sunni vs Shiite.

This is like Budwieser fan arguing with a Bud light fan when it is the same company that makes both products.

FYI Muslims simply plagiarized Christianity, Christianity plagiarized Jews and they plagiarized the Canaanite polytheists.