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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 2:18 am
(January 10, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: (January 10, 2015 at 7:19 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't have to justify your theology PT. My theology is different.
I'm asking you to justify your criticism, which should be obvious to someone as seemingly intelligent as yourself. This leads me to believe you don't have a critique, or you realize that you're committing tu quoque and don't wish that to be elucidated.
In either instance, I'm entitled to regard your criticism as meaningless.
Feel free to show me otherwise.
No, what is obvious is that you're now being a dick.
For the first time in this post you're seemingly asking me why I don't agree with you. Please show me if this is incorrect.
The question is: why does damnation negate justice. Your misunderstanding is that damnation is permanent.
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 4:11 am
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2015 at 4:14 am by robvalue.)
I think your views grasshopper on the bible are extremely progressive compared to most christians. I commend you.
The thing I don't get though is that you can see the OT to be made up garbage, yet you put religious faith (I presume) into the NT? How can you think there's any ring of truth in there, that the people compiling and editing the bible just happened to start writing true stuff near the end? I'm not having a go, I just can't understand the thinking there.
I agree taking what you find useful from any book is good, but what makes you want to identify as a christian? What does that mean to you?
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 4:52 am
(January 11, 2015 at 4:11 am)robvalue Wrote: I think your views grasshopper on the bible are extremely progressive compared to most christians. I commend you.
The thing I don't get though is that you can see the OT to be made up garbage, yet you put religious faith (I presume) into the NT? How can you think there's any ring of truth in there, that the people compiling and editing the bible just happened to start writing true stuff near the end? I'm not having a go, I just can't understand the thinking there.
I agree taking what you find useful from any book is good, but what makes you want to identify as a christian? What does that mean to you?
I believe Jesus Christ was real. I won't bother with pieces of proof and evidence because no proof will do for a non believer. I never used strong words such as garbage for the old testament. The gospel of john was not hearsay and the epistles and acts contain nothing that disproves anything. It's just theology. I suggest that all of you should read the letters of paul especially colossians through the unbiased views of a christian.
Why do I take the latter part of the old testament to be true? They're mostly words of wisdom, books of hope, prophesies about their future (Yes Tyre was destroyed exactly the way the prophet says it would be. No the ancient city of Tyre isn't still standing. That's the modern city)
And the new testament is believable simply because I feel it is. What in the NT apart from the miracles do you think couldn't have been real.
Your conclusion that Jesus wasn't real holds as much weight as if I claim for certain that god exists. It just won't hold up in front of secular and reputable historical scholars
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 5:01 am
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2015 at 5:03 am by robvalue.)
You believe it because it feels right to do so, I respect that, that is the honest answer.
But you cannot argue scientifically that the NT is accurate. Well you can, but you will fail. Jesus may be "real" in that there may have been some guy called jesus who said a couple of cool sounding things and maybe did some tricks, but the rest is just a story. If you really want me to, I can back this up, this is not just my opinion. I've spent a lot of time looking into this, from an objective point of view.
You say no evidence could convince me, that's untrue. The fact is that there is no evidence at all that virtually anything jesus said or did actually happened. It is not verified by any other contemporary accounts. The bible contains many known forgeries, and even the very first non-biblical ”evidence" contains a very suspicious and probably forged passage, which only at best demonstrates what people believed about jesus, not what actually happened.
It's cool, I respect that you believe the story, and you feel it is right to do so, I'm not going to argue with that. I'm just saying that objectively, it is not a real story, and the facts are on my side.
Sure, you could say I can't prove conclusively that it isn't, but that is a very weak argument from ignorance, based on the near impossibility of proving a negative.
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 5:22 am
Maybe the reason you think there aren't any sources outside the bible because all the known sources were incorporated into the bible. If there were more sources they would've added them in it.
Remember that the bible as we know it was only compiled a few hundred years later. Before that the new testament was just a bunch of papers written by various people catching dust in various churches in asia minor. Also not all the gospels are religious. Mark is very much secular. luke makes his purpose clear and is also largely non religious. John and matthew are because that was for the reslective gentile and jew audiences it was meant for.
And ultimately as I asked in the other thread, what would possess the 70 men in israel to want to make a man seem to be more than he is just to spread news of the messiah even though they knew what pain they would have to face
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 5:35 am
OK man, well that's cool. If you want the evidence, I can bring it. Otherwise, not to worry.
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 12:11 pm
(January 11, 2015 at 5:22 am)Grasshopper Wrote: ... what would possess the 70 men in israel to want to make a man seem to be more than he is just to spread news of the messiah even though they knew what pain they would have to face So each one of those 70 men wrote a book? Or is it just four second hand accounts written after the alleged event?
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 12:44 pm
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2015 at 12:47 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(January 11, 2015 at 2:18 am)fr0d0 Wrote: No, what is obvious is that you're now being a dick.
For the first time in this post you're seemingly asking me why I don't agree with you. Please show me if this is incorrect.
Perhaps if you'd answer the questions put to you I wouldn't be so rude. But I'm not in the habit of answering rudeness with kindness.
(January 11, 2015 at 2:18 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The question is: why does damnation negate justice. Your misunderstanding is that damnation is permanent.
When damnation comes for things like mixing fabrics, the unjust nature of the monst -- er, deity you worship is laid bare.
I know you won't be reading this, as you have already put me on ignore (ore so you said in another thread) for having asked you questions you're unequipped to answer. It tickles me to see that this too is one of those questions. It's good to know that you're so easily riled, simply by pointing out your own foolishness.
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 12:49 pm
(January 11, 2015 at 12:44 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: (January 11, 2015 at 2:18 am)fr0d0 Wrote: No, what is obvious is that you're now being a dick.
For the first time in this post you're seemingly asking me why I don't agree with you. Please show me if this is incorrect.
Perhaps if you'd answer the questions put to you I wouldn't be so rude. But I'm not in the habit of answering rudeness with kindness.
(January 11, 2015 at 2:18 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The question is: why does damnation negate justice. Your misunderstanding is that damnation is permanent.
When damnation comes for things like mixing fabrics, the unjust nature of the monst -- er, deity you worship is laid bare.
I know you won't be reading this, as you have already put me on ignore (ore so you said in another thread) for having asked you questions you're unequipped to answer. It tickles me to see that this too is one of those questions. It's good to know that you're so easily riled, simply by pointing out your own foolishness.
Off topic...What question caused Fr0d0 to put you on ignore?
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RE: To Christians...Theocracy?
January 11, 2015 at 4:47 pm
Mixed fabrics!!?!!
I put him on ignore because he resorts to insults right off the bat. I had him on ignore previously and thought he was making sensible comments lately. As soon as I start talking to him he starts with the insults again. I don't mind trading insults, but the staff will ban me for it.
He has nothing useful to say to me, or points for me to address... like above... what does that mean and how is it at all relevant to what I said?? He thinks I'm being rude to him. I called him a dick because he started insulting me. He obviously expects to call people names without getting his treatment handed back to him. Does that sound fair? Am I understanding this situation correctly?
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