Creation/evolution3

[Norman Humann]

Uh, OK, sorry for rushing you. But you already answered that post and didn't answer the question.

Bolding mine.

The irony. It's too much.

You're the one who believes an outdated, incosistent book without question or evidence, yet we are intelectually lazy? Can you give us a reason why you would think so?

again another ironically lazy statement. Why? because you believe that I have not spent the last 20+ years researching and testing every aspect of what I believe.

I have shown time and time again that I can support everything I hold to and believe. Not only that I know the atheist positions far batter than most of you!

You can tell your selves whatever you like, but know (and I can provide plent of proof just in this thread) that I take nothing for granted, that I look up and research absolutly EVERYTHING on bothsides of the conversation and stick with what rings true.

Unless you meant you think we're intelectually lazy because we don't believe you've done research on the bible.

[dyresand]

Really? No? It's just going to be another empty assertion from you?

Why am I surprised?

Omg

When one starts a thread, especially an active one, sometimes it takes time to address all the people who want to chime in. My solution is to TAKE EACH POST IN THE ORDER IT WAS RECEIVED, and Answer Them Accordingly! This May mean that some of you will have to wait a little bit, but you will indeed get an answer so long as you are repeating a point for the 5th or 6th time or your not spamming something you saw on youtube and when confronted can't respond intellegently because the youtube video did not cover my point.(Drysand)

But here is the bigger question why bother at all i mean why does god bother at with us he knows what road we are going down he knows his word has been changed and picked apart and one follows it. So why doesn't god bother at all considering that his own followers are practically diminishing in the first world and might even start in the world. I mean why did god bother to create monkey man since original is dead by your logic and give monkey man original sin. He should of done a better job is all i am saying because he should have sunk Noah's ark just saying if your going to do a job you job do it right and really start all over.

[Drich]

again another ironically lazy statement. Why? because you believe that I have not spent the last 20+ years researching and testing every aspect of what I believe.

I have shown time and time again that I can support everything I hold to and believe. Not only that I know the atheist positions far batter than most of you!

You can tell your selves whatever you like, but know (and I can provide plent of proof just in this thread) that I take nothing for granted, that I look up and research absolutly EVERYTHING on bothsides of the conversation and stick with what rings true.

OK, then present the evidence.

You might also take into consideration that most of the times you try to support your claims, your arguments are rebuted.

No my arguements are argued against often citing some strawman version based on the other person's idea of christianity rather than what I have to say. Very seldomly does someone go line by line with me addressing my actual points. When they do (if I feel it is of great importance or they push me to the point of just showing them up) they tend to drop the conversation dead or start name calling. Proof in this thread?

Read the following post number:
267
268
270
274
281
293
298
308
328
344

In 328 the poster cited several instances where I dropped the topic. I do this when I feel it has really nothing to do with my core message. Why? because it truly isn't about winning out on everything I have to say. I have a core message, to which I will not compromise. everything else is trivial so I tend to let you guys have wins that dont really matter to me. That is unless you try and take you wins to try and attack me and my compentance thus calling into question my core message or I just get tired of turning the other cheek. and I just want to destroy something..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9gjW9RmkpY

---

Oh no.. Don't open the rabbit hole of crazy circular Drich-reasoning Xeno...

because you might actually begin to ask the question people like FF seem to want to supress.

[Norman Humann]

No my arguements are argued against often citing some strawman version based on the other person's idea of christianity rather than what I have to say. Very seldomly does someone go line by line with me addressing my actual points.

How can this be if most people quote your posts and address only what you said in them? Furthermore, they ask you direct questions on what you think and believe.

Besides, didn't you do that just a couple of posts earlier? I mean this:

again another ironically lazy statement. Why? because you believe that I have not spent the last 20+ years researching and testing every aspect of what I believe.

Bolding mine.

You just said right there what we believe.

[Drich]

I can provide an adequate synopsis of your position, if you need one Drich.

On the issue of monkey men with souls, genesis, and evolution, you've offered the extrabiblical claim that you can squeeze all of -whatever- into the time between the end of creation and the fall.

Again your mixing two things. the first is theexegetical statement that their is no time line between the last day of creation and the fall of man. Without a doubt in any bible there is no date. This has been proven several different times to you.

Second thing. Man, a Man, Adam was different than ALL Other creatures in that God breathed into Him a Living soul. This was unique to Adam and his children and their children.

IF
It is your belief that man existed outside of the garden the bible does not deny you this belief. In fact it supports it as it speaks of cities and of people not listed in the garden account. However as per genesis 2 these 'men did not have souls as ADAM was the only one who did.

So to recap: Monkey men/Evolved man/ Man who lived out side the garden did not have a soul. Adam did per The Creation account.

-You actually can't, I've demonstrated why, and offered you a means of demonstrating or falsifying your own claim by biblical reference.

No I have several times, you just keep asking the same questions over pertending I did not say what I did.

You ran off to some bullshit about exodus and dropped the monkey man song and dance.

We are discussing exodus because a question was ask. That's what I do here I answer questions.

You do not have question you make strawmen and want me to defend what you think I should say.

As regards exodus, you've given a contra-biblical, falsifiable, and..conveniently, falsified excuse as to why no evidence has been found rather than simply say "Bible says that nothing wore out because magic".

Nope try again sport. This is exactly what I mean by you creating strawmen. A link I posted showed the scripture that said their clothing did not wear out, everything being discussed clothing never came up. You all want to see camp fires, poop, bones, dead people, tents and pottery Again aside from the dead all of that would have been repurposed. The dead one dried out their bones would have been gathered and treked to the promise land like moses was!

-Unfortunately, you've been called out on that at length, but here were are, up to date.

Yes I've been called out many many times but each and every time the out callings have been shot down. How? Because they are almost always based on logical fallacy/false repersentation of my position.

What does it say about your arguement if you have to lie about what I've said for arguement to make sense?

You've clearly shown that you can support what you believe, but in doing so you've shown what you'll accept as support for what you believe.

Actually I can not support what you believe I believe. In the very beginning of your last post you wanted to provide a synopsis. YOU FAILED To do That! So then how can you tell me I can't support what I believe if you don't even have an elementry grasp of it?

That "support" is extra-biblical, contra-biblical, non-factual, logically invalid...and, frankly....ridiculous bullshit of the very lowest order even without mentioning any of the former. Allow me to suggest that if -this- is what satisfies you as far as support for a belief...then you require none at all -in actuality-. That it might be prudent, since each piece of "support" provides a means to demonstrably falsify your beliefs, that your beliefs would be better served if you stopped attempting to support them at all. Your "ministry" here is chipping away at what little credibility anyone might have afforded it even if only on the grounds of earnestness. You've convinced me, for example, that not only are your beliefs demonstrably and factually wrong...but that you don't actually believe them as you claim to, and that you certainly aren't interested in these beliefs you claim at all.... - and that takes quite a bit. Is that what you're shooting for, is this the goal? If not, you might want to rethink your method, eh?

these are the ranting of the self diluted.

Show me line by line proof. Show me the first place you had a proper understanding of what has been discussed and show me where you accuratly refuted what was said.

Each and every instance you change the subject of discussion just enough so your sweeping generalization seem to apply.

Take your sweeping generalizations off the table and what do you have left? Absolutly nothing. You want to be the heavy hitter here, but you will not put in the work or effort.

So me that I am wrong show me by truly restating me arguement. Show me your not the lazy pretender you seem to be and I will put in the time to straighten out what ever you like no matter how long it takes (lord willing I have the time.)

[FatAndFaithless]

Good lord Drich, A/S/K God to fix your formatting.

[watchamadoodle]

@Drich, as I am remembing the whole story of Exodus, how can you take that literally and have any love for God? God hardens the heart of Pharaoh, so he can punish Egypt with plagues - culminating in God's Angel killing every firstborn in Egypt ... even animals?

So?

What if God harden the hearts of the members of ISIS from this point on? What would change?

Just because God hardened pharroah's heart did not mean Pharroah loved the jews.
Ender's Game is a recent Harrison Ford Movie in it is a great quote that sums up what happened here:

Colonel Graff: Tell me why you kept on kicking him. You had already won.

Ender Wiggin: Knocking him down won the first fight. I wanted to win all the next ones, too. So they'd leave me alone.

After the 10 plagues and the standoff at the Red sea 'Pharroah left them alone.'

There are numerous stories in the Bible where God seems to be a very evil being. You can't take these stories literally and still love such a God. You might worship this God out of fear, but you could not love it.

Why not?

There is only an issue if I suppose that 'my morality' is indeed greater than God. if I am in place to judge God then I become the authority and therefore can not love or worship Him as my Authority.

What I have learned is our acts, in of themselves hold no righteous/moral value. It's what God says about them that makes them right or wrong.

Man has a tendency to give value to the deeds themselves. Why? so that they can later be maniuplated to justify his wants.. In truth there is nothing in the bible that has been attributed to God that man himself hasn't done for some 'justifiable' reason.

So if you want to continue believing in God, then you need to stop taking the Bible literally - just like Roxy suggested in an early post.

And, what if I know I can have God's full backing and support if I continue that path that I'm on? Why would I want to change?

Like with the Jews I have spent 40 years in the desert (tough times) and I have been shown the promise land. why would I want to abandon my post just before I got to step in?

Especially after all the crazy stuff I have witnessed and been apart of.

Didn't Paul say God's law is written on everybody's heart (i.e. intuitive)? My intuitive sense of right and wrong wants to puke when it reads the story of Genesis.

This idea that we should abandon our own innate sense of morality is really dangerous IMO - especially when the Bible is so ambiguous and people claim to get guidance through the Holy Spirit.

I don't expect I will change your mind though.

[Drich]

But here is the bigger question why bother at all i mean why does god bother at with us he knows what road we are going down he knows his word has been changed and picked apart and one follows it. So why doesn't god bother at all considering that his own followers are practically diminishing in the first world and might even start in the world. I mean why did god bother to create monkey man since original is dead by your logic and give monkey man original sin. He should of done a better job is all i am saying because he should have sunk Noah's ark just saying if your going to do a job you job do it right and really start all over.

What is the meaning of life?

that's another easy one...

In essence God wants sentient beinga to work with in the here/after for eternity. Rather God has Jobs he wants done, and he created a universe that requires a 'man behind the curtain' in certain aspects. (like angels serve as messengers ect) The 'trusted followers' (depending on one's faithfulness in this life) will be given a task to do in the next perfectly suited to us.

To what end? To God's glory.

(If you dont know what that means ask don't assume.)

[dyresand]

But here is the bigger question why bother at all i mean why does god bother at with us he knows what road we are going down he knows his word has been changed and picked apart and one follows it. So why doesn't god bother at all considering that his own followers are practically diminishing in the first world and might even start in the world. I mean why did god bother to create monkey man since original is dead by your logic and give monkey man original sin. He should of done a better job is all i am saying because he should have sunk Noah's ark just saying if your going to do a job you job do it right and really start all over.

What is the meaning of life?

that's another easy one...

In essence God wants sentient beinga to work with in the here/after for eternity. Rather God has Jobs he wants done, and he created a universe that requires a 'man behind the curtain' in certain aspects. (like angels serve as messengers ect) The 'trusted followers' (depending on one's faithfulness in this life) will be given a task to do in the next perfectly suited to us.

To what end? To God's glory.

(If you dont know what that means ask don't assume.)

When that time comes when we see other sentient beings if this happens in our life time. What do you expect do you expect us to still be in gods image because the outsiders would look different would you even welcome them our would call them demons.

[Drich]

How can this be if most people quote your posts and address only what you said in them?

I don't want to call anyone out so I will use the name 'tiger lilly' So tiger lilly would quote a passage of mine and then start in on what he thought it said or what he thought christians would say and not actuall address what was in the quote. When I called tiger lilly on this his response was just to stop quoting, and kept on.

Another 'quoter' I'll call him 'the beat' also did what tiger lilly did. However, when I responded he would not participate or acknoweledge my response. He would typically make a reference to some victory he claimed in the past and then try and draw paralells between what ever he was talking about currently with what he or I did/didn't do earlier in the thread or even months or years back with absolutly Nothing to substaintiae his claim..

I ask you how is this not absolutle intelectual laziness, steeped in logical fallacy?' But, hey their crap was spell right.. I guess when such importance is placed of things like spelling and grammar things like content cease to matter.

Furthermore, they ask you direct questions on what you think and believe.

Besides, didn't you do that just a couple of posts earlier? I mean this:

again another ironically lazy statement. Why? because you believe that I have not spent the last 20+ years researching and testing every aspect of what I believe.

Bolding mine.

You just said right there what we believe.

In nearly 50 pages of dialog in just this one thread, you honestly don't think I have not covered my beliefs ad nasuim? Or is it your belief that if say 'the beat' or tiger lilly wants to asked me 10 times a day what i believe i am obligated to answer each time?

Arguementium Ad nausium is a logicall fallacy tactic the 'the beat' frequently employs. He will ask the same question 10 15 or as many times as it takes ignoring what has been said 19 time for that 20th time when you don't answer him. they call you character into question for not answering him on his terms or say because you can't answer.. bla bla bla..

For guys like this "trolls" they are not looking for answers they are looking to manuver and employ tactics to claim whatever they wanted to say to begin with. So why do I play along? for those who may have that question they are pretending to have but do not want to ask it for whatever reason.