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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 18, 2015 at 11:56 pm
(January 18, 2015 at 8:08 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: (January 18, 2015 at 7:20 pm)Drich Wrote: The way I started this thread was an assault on France for hypocritically flying the banner of free speech when in fact they seem to only value it when it is against religion. i wanted to see how deep this all went. If support of France's decision to jail those speaking out against the goverment in the name of religion was bothering anyone, or if they felt it justified in jailing those who supported their religion over the state.
This is a very slippery slope. Once people start down this path I dont know how we will ever recover from it.
Your continued re-defining of terms in order to always be the martyr is so tiring.
In my opinion, France should never jail someone over words. This is, however, comparing America's free speech laws to France's, which are less widespread. I agree that all countries should protect free speech fully, but the fact is they don't.
But to say that they only value free speech when it is against religion is blatantly dishonest, and I think you know it, but will never admit it. They didn't value free speech when it went against the state's interest, or at the very least they set a threshold of intolerant speech that could be punished by law, but to say that the only free speech that is protected in France is anti-religious speech is just dense. But, then, why would I expect anything different from you?
For starters, France's free speech laws don't protect hate speech. Those are the LAWS of that country. I maintain that those laws shouldn't exist, but I don't live there so I don't get a say. The comic in question had been charged 38 times before for violating those pre-existing laws, this was just the latest incidence, timed by the comic purposefully. Nevertheless, you break the laws---whether you disagree with them or not---you risk going to jail.
So France's laws are hypocritical. But their enacting and upholding those laws is not.
I was simply pointing out the double standard in France's version of free speech. I was not trying to repersent their laws concerning it.
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 12:24 am
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 12:26 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(January 18, 2015 at 5:15 pm)Drich Wrote: Not till I get one from mine. Do you think that people who serve in the military are better than those who don't?
Did I say that? No?
Well there you go. I don't think I'm better, but I sure in the hell think I've got more standing than you to opine; I've put my ass behind my talk.
(January 18, 2015 at 5:15 pm)Drich Wrote: You said no but everything you've said since that no would indicate yes.
I'd suggest you learn how to read. To wit, I refer you to my comment regarding skin in the game. I don't think I'm better than you for having served, but unlike you, I've put my money where my mouth is.
The only thing you've done is talk cheap shit on the Internet.
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 12:25 am
(January 18, 2015 at 11:56 pm)Drich Wrote: I was simply pointing out the double standard in France's version of free speech. I was not trying to repersent their laws concerning it.
What double standard? Do you not see the difference between a political cartoon and anti-Semitic hate speech? (Again, I don't think either should be punished, but their laws are their laws.) Hate speech is not allowed in France. That is the law. The editors of Charlie Hebdo have been taken to court by the state for breaking this law, just like the comedian.
You seem to not understand that the French are decrying the idea that anyone should be murdered for speaking their opinion. You are conflating this with going to jail for breaking hate speech laws. Which, by the way, the Charlie Hebdo cartoons cannot be said to have done.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 12:52 am
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 1:53 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(January 18, 2015 at 6:08 pm)Drich Wrote: I showed/ shared your post with my uncle (Air Force combat vet from Vietnam) who has had 2 f-4's shot out from under him as he was laying down radar cover for b-52's in an unarmed jet, He said you had a quite impressive chest full of 'ribbons.'
You have a south west Asia and short tour (reservist) ribbon. Small arms proficiency, and a general training ribbon, and a general unit citation. Couple that with your firefighters badge, he said you were probably one of the guys who pumped or processed jet fuel somewhere between where the navy drops it off to the planes being fueled on the ground. The reason he said that was "everyone with a pulse who passed basic got those same ribbons in that unit during that particular deployment"
Your "uncle", whose heroism you're trying to wear, is right: I'm no hero, I was in the rear with the gear. But "he" clearly doesn't know shit about flightline operations, because firefighters fight fire, pull standbys, and make sure his ass gets out of the plane in one piece. We never once pumped fuel; that was the job of the fuelies. I've never heard of any aircrew badmouthing firefighters before, either; your "uncle" would be the first. And I wasn't a reservist; I was active duty for my first four years. Short tour ribbons don't distinguish between active or reservist duty; anyone who had actually been in the service would know that short tour was less than two years on station (I earned mine deploying with to Spain with the 801st Bomb Wing (p) for eight months). Long tour ribbons are awarded for serving overseas for more than two years. Maybe your "uncle" should look up the qualifications before "he" tells you about them?
Also, the Navy never dropped off fuel to any of my bases.
(January 18, 2015 at 5:15 pm)Drich Wrote: He also wanted me to tell you: 'he appreciates you putting your life on the line pumping gas and acting like an offended POW who has had two planes shot out from underneath him in actual combat, Just so you can Look like a hero on some stupid web site. You make your country, and all the real soldiers who's backs your standing on to make your point, real proud!'
In that case, this "uncle" of yours can grow a pair of balls and tell me "himself". My phone number is [Not on my watch!]. I personally think "he's" a figment of your imagination which you're trying to trump up, basing my view on "his" obvious ignorance of flightline processes. Feel free to prove me wrong using the number above. Make sure "he" knows what model of F-4 he flew, when "he" flew it, and which tail number "he" flew.
No pilot I've ever met, and there have been many, ever talked shit about firefighters, because they knew who had their backs. Your "uncle" would be the first. Because of this, I think your "uncle" was no aircrew PoW.
Me, I think you're full of shit.
(January 18, 2015 at 6:48 pm)Nope Wrote: Drich, sometimes I believe that you are secretly one of the best trolls ever.
He's a hack, so transparent he can't see himself in the mirror --which is clear from his posting, so obviously missing the element of introspection. He telegraphs his punches, gets led around by the nose, and couldn't cobble together an artful troll in a roomful of kindergartners.
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 1:06 am
Class act, Drich. You just can't help but make yourself out to be the biggest moron on the internet.
BTW, Parker's Tan, your rack was bigger than mine. I only had two rows in my 5 years in the Navy. Thank you for your service.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 1:45 am
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 1:58 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
(January 19, 2015 at 1:06 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: BTW, Parker's Tan, your rack was bigger than mine. I only had two rows in my 5 years in the Navy. Thank you for your service.
You and I both know that it ain't about fruit salad -- like Drich said, one of the few things he's been right about, the USAF gave a ribbon for completing Basic, which is horseshit so far as I'm concerned. What's next, a decoration for breathing? My badge tops all the others, because with that I earned admission into a brotherhood few know.
You've got one more year than I had, and we swore the same oath and served the same purpose. Thank you for your service, brotha.
What was your rating?
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 2:46 am
I was a Surface Warfare Officer. Drove ships, ran Damage Control drills, and made my sailors mop a lot...
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 3:19 am
(January 19, 2015 at 2:46 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: I was a Surface Warfare Officer. Drove ships, ran Damage Control drills, and made my sailors mop a lot...
Fuckin' A, bub. I get shivers thinking about damage control afloat ... probably why I could never be a swabby -- something about "if you don't succeed, you're swimming 641 miles" just really is not appealing.
Sa- lute. ![[Image: md2neu_th.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=s6.tinypic.com%2Fmd2neu_th.jpg)
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 4:48 am
(January 18, 2015 at 9:08 pm)Alice Wrote: (January 18, 2015 at 8:15 pm)ManMachine Wrote: Hide the world's supply of garlic.
MM
They do that, and they get to contend with vampire rapists in their quarters.
#Savethegarlic
Fanatic extremists or vampire rapists... what to do... what to do...
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: The frogs kicked over a hornet's nest!
January 19, 2015 at 5:08 am
(January 17, 2015 at 10:06 pm)Nope Wrote: I have been told on other forums that the Daily Mail is more like a tabloid paper so isn't the best source.
To be fair it was the daily mail who bought the MP's expenses scandal to the public's attention, so while I agree the mail does contain a lot of nonsense (don't they all?), it's not fair to write off everything they say simply because it's in the mail. This is generally an adhom the left like to argue so they can attack the messenger instead of the message IMO.
I never thought I'd be defending the mail when I woke up this morning but there you go.
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