Theists, What Would It Take For You To Lose Your Faith?

[Neo-Scholastic]

I would need a robust theory of consciousness based on physical reduction. Give me that and I would be tempted to return to my former atheism.

[professor]

DarkHorse and Darkstar nailed it for me.
Couldn't have put it better, thanks guys!
It is possible to walk away from what you know for a fact, I suppose people have done it for the world's goodies, after all, Lucifer and a bunch of his idiot friends did the same.
It takes a huge load of stupidity.

[Jenny A]

DarkHorse and Darkstar nailed it for me.
Couldn't have put it better, thanks guys!
It is possible to walk away from what you know for a fact, I suppose people have done it for the world's goodies, after all, Lucifer and a bunch of his idiot friends did the same.
It takes a huge load of stupidity.

Uh huh. But why do you know it as a fact? That's the part that boggles my mind.

[Angrboda]

DarkHorse and Darkstar nailed it for me.
Couldn't have put it better, thanks guys!
It is possible to walk away from what you know for a fact, I suppose people have done it for the world's goodies, after all, Lucifer and a bunch of his idiot friends did the same.
It takes a huge load of stupidity.

I hope you realize they were being sarcastic.

[Darkstar]

DarkHorse and Darkstar nailed it for me.
Couldn't have put it better, thanks guys!
It is possible to walk away from what you know for a fact, I suppose people have done it for the world's goodies, after all, Lucifer and a bunch of his idiot friends did the same.
It takes a huge load of stupidity.

I hope you realize they were being sarcastic.

Well, I technically wasn't being sarcastic; I actually believed (correctly, it seems) that there would be responses along those lines. It certainly wasn't intended to be a flattering prediction, though, that's for sure. I would say it baffles me how he can embrace close-mindedness so proudly, but... you know what? On second thought, I guess it does baffle me. Not in the sense that I'm surprised (I did call it in advance), but rather that I just can't understand how anyone can think like that. The surprise has long since worn off, but the perplexity remains.

[professor]

Jenny, after posting the above, my next thought was on how to answer your question. I figured it was coming.

My first idea was to consider a very intricate puzzle, one of those thousand piece jobs.
But then, I realized that the puzzle did not come first.

First was stepping out on the limb in a metaphorical sense.

I did not want to throw my entirety into following God, it means abdicating the throne of SELF, humbly placing myself at God's mercy.
The last thing I wanted to do was to become a real Christian.
But I wanted to know- what am I doing here and where will I be in a hundred years.

I began to read the bible, at the same time books on astral projection, ghosts and other occult things.
I thought of many of the things you guys do- the problem of evil, what if there is a hell.

One night I came home and laying in bed, I decided to cut the branch I was sitting on (metaphor-remember).
The words of Jesus- "He that is not with me is against me.." were playing loudly in me for a while.
I am not actively WITH Jesus. Not good.
I decided to see what happens by putting the saw to the branch between me and the tree.
I prayed an Act of contrition (a good prayer of repentance- which I meant!).
I prayed the "Our Father" and afterward, I said- "Do not let me ever leave you".
This was about one or two O clock AM. After that, I instantly woke from sleep and found it was morning.
I was in kind of a delightful shock, knowing I did not fall, knowing-
having a knowing inside that God was real.
I was amazed to say the least.
This was in 1972.
Now- the puzzle.
When you find pieces that fit, you join them, actually this puzzle is far bigger than the big ones ( I hate picture puzzles- by the way). But as time, study and life events pass, the puzzle becomes more and more clear.
There are areas still to be filled in, but the picture is there.
You know what they say about pictures.

---

Guys, it did not matter that you were being sarcastic.
Absolute knowledge looks like pride? No problem. you will find out later.

[watchamadoodle]

I would need a robust theory of consciousness based on physical reduction. Give me that and I would be tempted to return to my former atheism.

I assume you are saying you would need this reductionist theory of consciousness to accept metaphysical naturalism?

What would it take to make you an atheist with respect to Christianity?

[Neo-Scholastic]

I would need a robust theory of consciousness based on physical reduction. Give me that and I would be tempted to return to my former atheism.

I assume you are saying you would need this reductionist theory of consciousness to accept metaphysical naturalism?

I consider ontological naturalism/physicalism incoherent for a number of reasons, but most acutely with respect to consciousness.

What would it take to make you an atheist with respect to Christianity?

That’s a good question and one to which I haven’t given much thought. I am very ecumenical and place more emphasis on orthopraxy than orthodoxy. That said, I had a personal revelation that strongly favors a Christian interpretation. Take away natural theology and the revelation would, for me, become merely a psychological curiosity.

[Jenny A]

Jenny, after posting the above, my next thought was on how to answer your question. I figured it was coming.

My first idea was to consider a very intricate puzzle, one of those thousand piece jobs.
But then, I realized that the puzzle did not come first.

First was stepping out on the limb in a metaphorical sense.

I did not want to throw my entirety into following God, it means abdicating the throne of SELF, humbly placing myself at God's mercy.
The last thing I wanted to do was to become a real Christian.
But I wanted to know- what am I doing here and where will I be in a hundred years.

I began to read the bible, at the same time books on astral projection, ghosts and other occult things.
I thought of many of the things you guys do- the problem of evil, what if there is a hell.

One night I came home and laying in bed, I decided to cut the branch I was sitting on (metaphor-remember).
The words of Jesus- "He that is not with me is against me.." were playing loudly in me for a while.
I am not actively WITH Jesus. Not good.
I decided to see what happens by putting the saw to the branch between me and the tree.
I prayed an Act of contrition (a good prayer of repentance- which I meant!).
I prayed the "Our Father" and afterward, I said- "Do not let me ever leave you".
This was about one or two O clock AM. After that, I instantly woke from sleep and found it was morning.
I was in kind of a delightful shock, knowing I did not fall, knowing-
having a knowing inside that God was real.
I was amazed to say the least.
This was in 1972.
Now- the puzzle.
When you find pieces that fit, you join them, actually this puzzle is far bigger than the big ones ( I hate picture puzzles- by the way). But as time, study and life events pass, the puzzle becomes more and more clear.
There are areas still to be filled in, but the picture is there.
You know what they say about pictures.

Professor,

I admire your openness. I'm sure you know that I'm still likely to consider your answer crazy and I do. I know people who view the world in the self fulfilling puzzle sort-of way and come to all kinds of conclusions: the world would be solved by wealth redistribution, capitalism is the answer, the universe is love, god is love, Jesus is god,
Allah is god, it's all about race, and so on and so on. I don't think the truth can be found that way.

Much less do I think the truth can be found by a leap of faith and discovering that having made it you haven't fallen apart over night.

I don't find leaps of faith scary so much as pointless, unless you at least know the thing you are having a leap of faith about exists before you leap. I take love from various people on faith. Beginning to do that was a leap. But the people obviously exist and the returns obviously exist. Neither appears to be the case with god, so I remain puzzled.

[Nope]

I would need a robust theory of consciousness based on physical reduction. Give me that and I would be tempted to return to my former atheism.

Thank you very much for answering but could you answer in plain English? I have no idea what you meant. Dumb it down for me a bit. LOL

Also, thank you professor for answering