So It Seems the Anti-Vax Crowd

[LastPoet]

When I was in school in Massachusetts, the law required certain vaccinations or you could not attend. Is this not the case everywhere?

Over here in Portugal, no one of sane mind would refuse the vaccines, not sure if they could. These days, parents even opt for optional vaccines, like hep B and such, just for the future sake of their kids. Yet, none of this batshittery about vaccines.

[Dystopia]

Yeah but regardless of laws it's still an interesting topic. I think vaccines are imperatives of health but at the same time I don't like coercion; how would we force someone to vaccinate? Fines? What if the person refuses to pay? I'm curious.

If I want to go somewhere like Africa or Amazonia for example I need to vaccinate myself but I'm pretty sure I can refuse since I'm an adult. I think the law in Portugal says vaccination is mostly mandatory, at least important vaccines are - Moreover, kids as old as 7 are not permitted to enter school if they are not vaccinated and some adults cannot exercise public office and other important jobs if they didn't get a tetanus shot. I don't know about any religious opposition to vaccines, I only know that if there's a medical justification for non vaccination it is allowed

[LastPoet]

The reason it should be mandatory is the same that is mandatory for drivers to not drive drunk. Your freedom ends when it starts to steal everyone else's freedom, in this case, the right to have a healthy life.

[Esquilax]

I wouldn't call it a concentration camp, because it's not: it's a quarantine, something that both federal and state governments in the US has been empowered to do for a very long time. If you want the right to not vaccinate then fine, you can have it. I'd like to see you argue that you also have the right to expose everyone else to the dangerous viral hotbox you're intent on turning your body into; no court in the world will uphold your right to knowingly infect others with deadly diseases.

Are you sure it's 'knowingly'? Seems likely that it's ignorantly.

Oh, they at least recognize that by not vaccinating you leave yourself open to infection by the diseases the vaccine confers immunity for; that's why you get so many anti-vaxxers who seem desperate to minimize the effects of those diseases. I saw a children's book the other day- a fucking picture book for kids- that was all about how awesome it is to have measles. The message got kinda muddied by the multiple, conflicting perspectives the author wanted to jam together (though the title calls measles "marvelous," the book takes pains to only depict people who got vaccinated actually contracting the disease, in a "so much for vaccinations!" kind of way, while simultaneously asserting that not vaccinating and drinking lots of fruit juice will be sufficient to make you safe from measles... and yet still characterizing the disease as a fun anecdote you can show off to your friends at school and get popular) but the entire enterprise is extremely fucked up.

Yeah but regardless of laws it's still an interesting topic. I think vaccines are imperatives of health but at the same time I don't like coercion;

The same argument could be leveled against, say, mandatory driving requirements, like being over a certain age and having a driver's license, and not driving drunk or over the speed limit. It's still government coercion but it serves a common good and so we've just kinda accepted it into the fabric of our society. Vaccinations are no different, it's just that we're having the conversation now that people are willing to relinquish their common sense on this issue, when that same conversation was had about driving long ago.

how would we force someone to vaccinate? Fines? What if the person refuses to pay? I'm curious.

The same way we deal with anyone else who breaks a law they feel entitled to break. No special treatment here. Fine them, and exclude them from places where they could endanger others. They break those laws, they can deal with the consequences.

[Minimalist]

Guys I'm thinking about creating a poll to vote on legality regarding vaccination. What do you think?

Um, every state has regulations requiring children to be vaccinated before entering public school.

The problem is many states have various exemptions and most of them are bullshit related ( i.e. "religion") not health related.

As was pointed out the other day two states which do not have religious exemptions are fucking Mississippi and West Virginia. Seems strange but measels has not been reported in Mississippi in 20 years.

[Strider]

As was pointed out the other day two states which do not have religious exemptions are fucking Mississippi and West Virginia. Seems strange but measels has not been reported in Mississippi in 20 years.

There's a bill in the Mississippi legislature right now that would grant parents the right to object on "conscientious beliefs" to having their children vaccinated. If Mississippi has something going for it, rest assured they will actively seek to fuck it up.

These anti-vaccination people are insane. They would vaccinate their kids for polio (and other diseases that have been MIA for decades) if they met somebody with fucking polio. My grandpa, who died when I was still a little kid, had polio and it was awful. His life had to have been one of constant misery.

[Dystopia]

As was pointed out the other day two states which do not have religious exemptions are fucking Mississippi and West Virginia. Seems strange but measels has not been reported in Mississippi in 20 years.

There's a bill in the Mississippi legislature right now that would grant parents the right to object on "conscientious beliefs" to having their children vaccinated. If Mississippi has something going for it, rest assured they will actively seek to fuck it up.

These anti-vaccination people are insane. They would vaccinate their kids for polio (and other diseases that have been MIA for decades) if they met somebody with fucking polio. My grandpa, who died when I was still a little kid, had polio and it was awful. His life had to have been one of constant misery.

And they accuse us of immorality

[abaris]

What's the deal with that anti vax croud anyway. I never heard of them until I came to this board. Seems to be another American phenomenon. Something like going back to the happy days of the Black Death.

[Minimalist]

As a matter of fact, the whole thing was started by a English guy named Andrew Wakefield who published an article in The Lancet way back in 1998 claiming a link between autism and vaccinations. The paper has been debunked, withdrawn, ridiculed and villified...but idiot Americans still insist in accepting it.

As the saying goes....you can always tell an American, but you can't tell him much.

[Dystopia]

Regarding the OP, I think people use the word Nazi too much without knowing what it actually means. Equating ridiculous things like anti-vaccination with an overwhelmingly devastating socio-political movement like National-Socialism is inaccurate because not even Hitler was that crazy (dude believed in a few conspiracy theories about Jews)