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Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 7:11 am
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2015 at 7:44 am by Brian37.)
Every so often you get fans of hard rock slamming pop stars as being shallow. Especially Justin right now. But just like with every topic humans have short term memories. Crap like this is nothing new.
Elvis is the biggest example of confusing a performer with a musician. He was no musician. He was a pop star and performer. Now lots of people loved him and only a fool would say he didn't have talent AS A PERFORMER. He played well enough to get by, but his talent was his voice and his stage act.
Now I love the Ramones, but they were a 3 cord band, and if anyone outside a couple of their songs wants to claim their lyrics were deep, are out of their minds. The Ramones CERTAINLY were talented but hardly deep anymore than Justin or Elvis.
I really get sick of people mixing styles as if they are comparable. It is like mixing baking with gardening.
If someone wants to hate Justin for his off stage and off camera out of studio bullshit as a dumb kid, I get that. Just like Elvis shooting a TV in his hotel room. But that is his personal behavior having nothing to do with his pipes or ability to move around on stage or on camera.
Really not that different when a a fan of one sport bashes another sport. It doesn't matter if you like the sport or not. At the pro level no one gets that far if they have no talent. Now certainly you can find that most aspiring to get there wont make it anymore than knowing most highschool soccer and football players wont make it to the pros EVEN with the talent.
So please guys, bash Justin for the right reasons. But knock it off with bashing his talent.
Same with any style of music. I get lots of people who hate rap music. I am personally not into it myself. I am also not into banjo music. But over the years I have been able to separate my own personal taste from the styles I am not into. And the funny thing is those at the top of any style if you go into their libraries of their music, you will not see a monochromatic library.
Fans of rap don't like thrash metal. Fundies certainly do not. I can tell you my mom thinks it is noise. But when you see first chair violin players ask Hetfield for autographs in their S&M album, you know it is about the music. One of my best friends is an atheist and a redneck from Oklahoma, way into old style country(not pop country, although some) into banjo music. While I felt I had already had a range of taste before meeting him, having known him for almost a decade now, he has broken my stereotypes not just about music, but about middle country rural communities.
So it isn't to me about liking a style. I still do not find the sound of country music pleasing. But just like rap and pop and thrash metal, you can appreciate the talent without liking the style. No different than food.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 7:50 am
Justin Beiber sucks, and I have no problem bashing his talent when, in fact, he has very little.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 8:02 am
(February 13, 2015 at 7:50 am)Faith No More Wrote: Justin Beiber sucks, and I have no problem bashing his talent when, in fact, he has very little.
Bullshit. And for the reasons I stated. He certainly does have talent. Not liking his out of studio off stage antics has nothing to do with his talent. I cant stand rap music, but I also admit I couldn't do it myself.
As a huge ABBA fan I can tell you ABBA's sucked at stage performance. The girls could not dance to save their lives but because of the video editing they were the early pioneers of MTV before MTV existed at all.
ABBA's lyrics are hardly deep outside a couple of songs, but the girls have awesome voices and the guys are classically trained musicians. Justin has a voice, like it our not. Justin has stage moves and camera moves, like it or not.
Just say you don't like him personally. I get that part. But that has nothing to do with his ability to sing and dance and perform. Just like I don't like rap or soccer. Different styles different tastes.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 8:09 am
You mean you had reasons somewhere hidden in that nonsensical rant?
No, he sucks.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 8:49 am
Benny and Bjorn were good musicians, but as far as I can tell neither was classically trained. Wikipedia suggests that Benny taught himself how to play piano and indicated that Bjorn studied law in school, not music.
You are right to point out Agnetha and Frida's singing quality, but fail to recognize the vast difference in singing quality between Elvis and Bieber. I certainly hope the omission isn't suggesting that they were comparable.
I get your point that Elvis was a performer, but the man could flat out fucking sing. Elvis was a musician, his voice was his instrument. The same cannot be said of Justin Bieber.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 9:04 am
(February 13, 2015 at 7:50 am)Faith No More Wrote: Justin Beiber sucks, and I have no problem bashing his talent when, in fact, he has very little.
Bieber!!!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 9:09 am
I don't care if Bieber is talented or not - "his" music (which is really music of cynical producers, with his auto-tuned whining on top) makes me nauseous and is being played all around. If I had to hear Elvis going "baby, baby, baby, ooooooh" every day - I'd hate him too.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 9:10 am
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2015 at 9:22 am by Alex K.)
Fair enough. I just don't think there is a hard separation between genres where one or the other aspect is important in a all or nothing fashion, as you seem to suggest in the first part of OP.
Ok Bieber can sing ok, Katy Perry really can't sing. I think Bieber produces horrible kitsch, KP songs are on average less annoying.
Some early two chord punk bands barely knew which way to hold a guitar, and noone cared because it was about the attitude and the scene and rebellion, other punk bands have developed some pretty awesome musicianship.
(February 13, 2015 at 9:09 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: I don't care if Bieber is talented or not - "his" music (which is really music of cynical producers, with his auto-tuned whining on top) makes me nauseous and is being played all around. If I had to hear Elvis going "baby, baby, baby, ooooooh" every day - I'd hate him too.
But Elvis had more artistic range than the hip swinging imitator caricature you make him out to be
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 9:21 am
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2015 at 9:21 am by Brian37.)
(February 13, 2015 at 8:49 am)Cato Wrote: Benny and Bjorn were good musicians, but as far as I can tell neither was classically trained. Wikipedia suggests that Benny taught himself how to play piano and indicated that Bjorn studied law in school, not music.
You are right to point out Agnetha and Frida's singing quality, but fail to recognize the vast difference in singing quality between Elvis and Bieber. I certainly hope the omission isn't suggesting that they were comparable.
I get your point that Elvis was a performer, but the man could flat out fucking sing. Elvis was a musician, his voice was his instrument. The same cannot be said of Justin Bieber.
Elvis was hardly a musician. Benny and Bjorn most certainly were vastly more talented in that aspect. But Benny and Bjorn would not hold a candle to Elvis as far as stage performing.
Now as far as comparing Elvis to Bieber of course not. But the point still is the same. Not liking Bieber is what I ultimately see. Bieber does not suck talent wise. Lots of unknown singers, rap artists and rock bands won't even get to his level of fame. It would be nice if people would simply criticize him for the right reasons.
(February 13, 2015 at 8:49 am)Cato Wrote: Benny and Bjorn were good musicians, but as far as I can tell neither was classically trained. Wikipedia suggests that Benny taught himself how to play piano and indicated that Bjorn studied law in school, not music.
You are right to point out Agnetha and Frida's singing quality, but fail to recognize the vast difference in singing quality between Elvis and Bieber. I certainly hope the omission isn't suggesting that they were comparable.
I get your point that Elvis was a performer, but the man could flat out fucking sing. Elvis was a musician, his voice was his instrument. The same cannot be said of Justin Bieber.
Elvis was hardly a musician. Benny and Bjorn most certainly were vastly more talented in that aspect. But Benny and Bjorn would not hold a candle to Elvis as far as stage performing.
Now as far as comparing Elvis to Bieber of course not. But the point still is the same. Not liking Bieber is what I ultimately see. Bieber does not suck talent wise. Lots of unknown singers, rap artists and rock bands won't even get to his level of fame. It would be nice if people would simply criticize him for the right reasons.
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RE: Performers vs Musicians...........OP ED
February 13, 2015 at 9:24 am
Justin beiber has talent, it's just that (in my opinion) the amount of talent he has wouldn't be recognized if you put his talent inside an old bald guy with a double chin.
He can sing and play the guitar fairly well, so put that talent into a young skinny guy who's very attractive to young girls who are a target market audience for the music market, then it's going to sell.
But yeh the same could probably be said of a lot of people.
I don't know if Kurt Cobain, eminem, the beatles, the sex pistols, tupac or anyone like that would have been famous if they were older, fatter uglier.
There are people though who I think it doesn't matter what their appearance or age is, their talent would get recognized anyway.
For example my favorite guitarist buckethead, I've heard interviews of people who knew him and they say he would just turn up into a studio and people's jaws would just drop, that there was this guitar virtuoso that could do slap bass better than flea and do the robot dance.
The same could be said for Steve vai, Yngwie malmstien and others, I'm a guitarist so all the examples I'm using here are of the guitar world but I'm sure there are people like this in the world of singing, dancing and other musical instruments.
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Impersonation is treason.
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