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Proof of God
RE: Proof of God
Most of what would make one happy would sentence them to hell, so is it just that it is OK in heaven?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Proof of God
(April 1, 2015 at 4:47 pm)bennyboy Wrote:
(April 1, 2015 at 11:54 am)Harris Wrote: So the Quran does not contain the word "jihad"?  Jihad is not part of the Islamic tradition?



US Government has an elaborate system of constitutional law. Unfortunately, US constitution contains words “WAR,” and “PUNISH.” “WAR,” and “PUNISH” are part of US constitution. Then what?
 
Because “WAR,” and “PUNISH,” are part of US constitution, does that mean US army should invade the whole world.
 
“Jihad” is the most distorted word in secular world. This misrepresentation is an intentional effort of the propaganda machine to deceive people. The purpose of this alleged act of forcing people into believing false (incomplete) meaning of Jihad is to create hatred against Islam.
 
Popular Media portray Jihad as:
 
 Holy War
 Blowing up one’s self, (Suicide is a sin in Islam)
 Killing innocent people
 Flying a plane into a building packed with civilians
 Fighting out of anger and hatred
 Killing others just because they do not agree with you
 Killing others just because they are not Muslims
 
If you open any modern English dictionary, you would probably find the definition of Jihad as “a holy war undertaken by Muslims against non-believers”. This is a very poor definition.
 
Secular West has intentionally reduced the notion of jihad in juristic and administrative literature to just “physical combat” thus made it practically synonymous with “Qital or Harb.”
 
The word “QITAL” means, in general, physical combat and “Harb” means War.
 
At the semantic level, the simplistic translation of jihad into English as ‘holy war’, as is common in some scholarly and non-scholarly discourses, constitutes a severe misrepresentation and misunderstanding of its Quranic usage. According to the Quranic worldview, human beings should be engaged constantly in the basic endeavour of enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. The struggle implicit in the application of this precept is jihad, properly and plainly speaking, and the endeavour refers both to an individual and a collective effort. The means for carrying out this struggle may vary, depending upon individual and collective circumstances, and the Quran often refers to those who
 
“strive with their wealth and their selves (jahadu biamwalihim wa-anfusihim)” (8.72).
 
Qital is the term that refers specifically to ‘fighting’ or ‘armed combat’ and is a component of jihad in specific situations. Harb is the Arabic word for war in general. The Quran employs this last term to refer to illegitimate wars fought by those who wish to spread corruption on earth (5.64); to the thick of battle between believers and non-believers (8.57; 47.4); and, in one instance, to the possibility of war waged by God and his Prophet against those who would continue to practice usury (2.279). This term is never conjoined to the phrase ‘in the path of God’.
 
Jihad is a very broad term and its basic Quranic signification means ‘struggle’, ‘striving’, and ‘exertion.’ The lexeme jihad is frequently conjoined to the phrase ‘fi sabil Allah’ (lit. ‘in the path of God’). The full locution in Arabic – aljihad fi sabil Allah – consequently means ‘struggling/striving for the sake of God’. This translation points to the polyvalency of the term and the potentially different meanings that may be ascribed to it in different contexts, since the phrase ‘in the path of/for the sake of God’ allows for human striving to be accomplished in multiple ways.
 
Many of the Quranic strictures pertaining to both non-violent and armed struggles against evil and the upholding of good cannot be understood properly without relating them to specific events in the life of the Prophet. A significant number of Quranic verses are understood traditionally to have been revealed in connection with certain episodes in Muhammad’s life. Knowledge of the ‘occasions of revelation (asbab alnuzul)’, as obtained from the biography of the Prophet and the exegetical literature, is indispensable for contextualizing key verses that may at first sight appear to be at odds with one another. A specific chronology of events needs to be mapped out so that the progression in the Quranic ethics of warfare and the taking of human life may be understood against its historical backdrop.
 
Jihad has many forms,
 
•Jihad of the heart/soul (jihad bin nafs/qalb)
•Jihad by the tongue (jihad bil lisan)
•Jihad by the pen/knowledge (jihad bil qalam/ilm)
•Jihad by the hand (jihad bil yad)
•Jihad by the sword (jihad bis saif)
 
 
“And STRIVE in His cause as ye ought to STRIVE, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He (God) Who has named you Muslims (one who submits his will to the Will of God), both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help!”
Al Hajj (22)
-Verse 78-
 
 
“Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but STRIVE against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Quran).”
Al Furqaan (25)
-Verse 52-
 
 
“We have enjoined on man kindness to parents: but if they (either of them) STRIVE (to force) thee to join with Me (in worship) anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not. Ye have (all) to return to me, and I will tell you (the truth) of all that ye did.”
Al 'Ankabuut (29)
-Verse 8-
 
 
“And those who STRIVE in Our (cause),- We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily Allah is with those who do right.”
Al 'Ankabuut (29)
-Verse 69-
 
 
“O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and STRIVE with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper.”
Al Maidah (5)
-Verse 35-
 
 
“O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you, and have (on the contrary) driven out the Prophet and yourselves (from your homes), (simply) because ye believe in Allah your Lord! If ye have come out to STRIVE in My Way and to seek My Good Pleasure, (take them not as friends), holding secret converse of love (and friendship) with them: for I know full well all that ye conceal and all that ye reveal. And any of you that does this has strayed from the Straight Path.”
Al Mumtahana (60)
-Verse 1-
 
 
“That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye STRIVE (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew!”
Ash-Shaff (61)
-Verse 11-
 
 
“Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,”
An Nisaa (4)
-Verse 95-
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RE: Proof of God
Oh, goodness, STOP

STOP

STOP

Honestly.

Posting scripture is no more evidence of god than me posting something in relation to Easter eggs that is a common Christian practice that has nothing to do with Jesus.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Proof of God
That's a lot of words, but you are skipping the important point: a religion which recommends jihad is not intrinsically peaceful. Peace is turning the other cheek, not an eye for an eye. It's forgiveness, not a shout for justice at the point of a sword.

Every form of Jihad also represents an intrinsic lack of faith. Whoever seeks to act as the hand of God, in any capacity, doubts the power of God to work on his own behalf. Why don't you and all the other muslims turn that jihad inward, and let Allah take care of the rest? If he really wants me to become a Muslim, can he not just tell me so in a dream? Does he have to do it through uneducated, angry gunmen?
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RE: Proof of God
It's very simple isn't it? God can talk to me, directly, any time he wants. He should know exactly how to do this so that I can't possibly miss it.

If instead he is waiting for me to do some bizarre ritual first, and to figure out which one it is based on people all over the world telling me contradictory things with no evidence, then he can stick it up his Allah hole. Why is he sending out garbled messages through people when he can just say hi?

Next time anyone speaks to God, tell him to come talk to me. If he won't, too bad, I got actual real things to worry about.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

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RE: Proof of God
(April 5, 2015 at 4:37 am)robvalue Wrote: It's very simple isn't it? God can talk to me, directly, any time he wants. He should know exactly how to do this so that I can't possibly miss it.

If instead he is waiting for me to do some bizarre ritual first, and to figure out which one it is based on people all over the world telling me contradictory things with no evidence, then he can stick it up his Allah hole. Why is he sending out garbled messages through people when he can just say hi?

Next time anyone speaks to God, tell him to come talk to me. If he won't, too bad, I got actual real things to worry about.

Kudos to you, because I abhor this new system so foreign to me.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Proof of God
Thank you Smile
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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RE: Proof of God
(April 5, 2015 at 3:05 am)bennyboy Wrote: If he really wants me to become a Muslim, can he not just tell me so in a dream?  Does he have to do it through uneducated, angry gunmen?

His ways are not our ways, he's mysterious, don't think about it, and who are YOU to question him, mortal?!  FSM Grin
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot

We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Proof of God
(April 5, 2015 at 4:50 am)Pizz-atheist Wrote:
(April 5, 2015 at 3:05 am)bennyboy Wrote: If he really wants me to become a Muslim, can he not just tell me so in a dream?  Does he have to do it through uneducated, angry gunmen?

His ways are not our ways, he's mysterious, don't think about it, and who are YOU to question him, mortal?!  FSM Grin

I'm one of the True Faithful.  I take God's complete lack of direct intervention in my life as divine permission to life my life however the fuck I want, without divine consequence, because He just. . . doesn't. . . give a shit.  I have sufficient faith in the reality of God to know that if he wanted to send me a message, he wouldn't send uneducated, angry Arabs with guns to deliver it.
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RE: Proof of God
(April 5, 2015 at 2:32 am)Harris Wrote:
 
“Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but STRIVE against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Quran).”
Al Furqaan (25)
-Verse 52-


To which I say, not listening works two ways.  Those who do not engage and listen not shall be ignored.  Your stated policy makes it clear that you do not deserve a seat at the table nor the courtesy of being heard.  Go strive somewhere else.  No one here gives a damn what you have to say next after posting this chestnut.
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