Christians mistakenly praying to bones of beasts

[Lucanus]

Oh man this story seriously cracked me up. I guess I'm not that wrong when I shout a "Porco dio!" when I get hurt or when I'm angry...

[Zenith]

I'm sure many if the prayers to the bones got answered. It reminded me of this video:
...

Btw robvalue,

the video does not help much (if, at all) a religious person. The reason for it is that religious people are not guided by reason, but by FEELINGS (i.e. I know it's the truth because I FELT it deep in my heart).

It's like trying to cure schizophrenia with logic. The ill man's gonna cry out "That guy is real! That guy is real! Why won't you believe me??"

A better way to help religious people would be to prove / clarify to them that what they feel (their religious emotions) means nothing. They are not the "holy spirit" nor any other "evidence" from God that they're right, or that they're are actually talking to anybody.

[vorlon13]

Damn. Praying to pig bones is just asking for damnation.

Satan is going to find out how many red hot pig skulls can be pounded into a sinners rectum with a pile driver.

Ouch. I guess the lesson is to be a little more careful during prayer. (assuming God doesn't give a 'heads up' when somebody is doing it wrong)

[robvalue]

I'm sure many if the prayers to the bones got answered. It reminded me of this video:
...

Btw robvalue,

the video does not help much (if, at all) a religious person. The reason for it is that religious people are not guided by reason, but by FEELINGS (i.e. I know it's the truth because I FELT it deep in my heart).

It's like trying to cure schizophrenia with logic. The ill man's gonna cry out "That guy is real! That guy is real! Why won't you believe me??"

A better way to help religious people would be to prove / clarify to them that what they feel (their religious emotions) means nothing. They are not the "holy spirit" nor any other "evidence" from God that they're right, or that they're are actually talking to anybody.

You're right. It's my opinion that almost all religiously held beliefs are based on an emotional reason, rather than any kind of logical reason. This becomes clear in their total inability to put forward a logical explanation for their belief.

So I guess when we're crushing people's dreams we need to be getting them to focus on exactly what these emotional reasons are, and get them to admit to them rather than to hide behind absurd notions like faith and crappy cosmological arguments. If they have any interest in truth, it's analyzing these emotions that will get them there.

How can we force people to do that while making it look like we're helping? Hmm...

[Zenith]

So I guess when we're crushing people's dreams we need to be getting them to focus on exactly what these emotional reasons are, and get them to admit to them rather than to hide behind absurd notions like faith and crappy cosmological arguments. If they have any interest in truth, it's analyzing these emotions that will get them there.

I think the answer is simple, but the analyzing is difficult: The emotions derive from thoughts, impressions, beliefs, etc. Those emotions make a great deal of difference between a man who opens a book to see what's written within it, and someone who opens it with the conviction that it's the HOLY word of the All-Powerful, All-Knowing God that He wrote specifically for people like himself. For those who worship decayed limbs, the same applies. How can you make someone understand that these "special" emotions he is feeling are merely the products of his own thoughts and beliefs?

Something that might be of use, but not too much, is for that religious man to see others, of other different religion, confessing how special they felt and so on. But that will not help much, cause you'll get answers like "But they're wrong and we're right, that's the difference!"

How can we force people to do that while making it look like we're helping? Hmm...

Basically, if you actually convince someone to forsake his faith, then I believe that is indeed helping. However, forcibly administering medicine to someone you call ill... he might not see it the same way.

[robvalue]

Sure. But if someone is licking some beast bones and I scream at them for a few hours and then smash up the bones, who is the monster really? I mean, erm...

Hang on a minute. Sorry about that.

Yeah... I'm wondering what categories these emotions could be, or if it's possible to simplify it that much.

Fearof judgement, of being always watched, of questioning, of thinking, of disbelief, and of other followers thinking less of them/killing them

Comfort from a "guardian", that there is some plan to this chaos, that death isn't the end, and from some vague idea of "jesus", that there are simple answers to life's difficult questions and they don't have to think about it

[Zenith]

Yeah, robvalue, you do have a point.

However, the whole thing is quite difficult. Basically, one with "strong faith", who's been like that for many years, it is possible you won't be able to help him at all. Faith is like a drug addiction where the victim calls it a good thing.

I... well, don't know how right I am, but I personally don't give a fuck about someone who prays to some bones. What truly matters is how such a person behaves in a society with people of different faiths (and non believers) and if / how it affects other people's lives. Practically, about the "how it affects our lives" thing, I am really concerned about the education of the children, who can very easily be turned into monsters (and can more easily be convinced of anything).

As far as I see from Christian Orthodoxy, at least, their faith is not based on behaving nicely or on keeping some commandments (perhaps they can't even tell what the ten are), but on being humble towards the priests (and all their hierarchy) and showing very high respect to them. So basically, if a brainwashed orthodox sees a certain man debating a priest, with courage, and not bowing down to the weak arguments he presents, he's regarded like a satanist / heretic / whatever.

I believe that any instance where a christian is convinced that a practice or belief of his is bad, is a win, even though he did not forsake everything, or not forsaken everything right now.

I also have acquaintances who call themselves christians (e.g. orthodox), but do not believe in the authority of the priests, do not go to kiss relics, even do not go (but too rarely) to churches, do not agree with the building of many churches, do not seek debates with non believers, nor to impose their beliefs on anybody, and just want to live their lives. Something more like a personal faith rather than a religion.

As for forsaking faith... it is quite difficult. In some cases I believe that people react to shocks: if, for instance, the preacher / priest always preaches that "God wants you to have money, to be rich", and the man happens to become homeless and no one helps him, it will be a conflict of what he's been taught and what truly happened. If the preacher says that "God cares about you, he will never allow something horrible to happen to you", and the man goes into a very bad period, where he's almost lost his sanity (or say, physical wounds: arms amputated) it would be a conflict, again. There must be something to shake his faith, on things he always considered holy / in a certain way. Other things that he needs are: a) the capability for a bit of self-criticism; b) getting out of the religious environment - i.e. even if the explanations of the others make absolutely no sense, the conviction of his relatives / friends of the church will keep him chained into his beliefs.

[robvalue]

I agree, if someone likes praying to some bones, and no harm comes of it, that's totally fine. They can do it all day long as far as I'm concerned.

But when they force their children to also worship the bones and victimize anyone who refuses to worship the bones, then it's gone too far. Once you get on to telling people how to live their lives because of what the bones thinks, or killing them because the bones says so, you've utterly lost your mind.

And when there's various different bone worshiping going on worldwide, causing huge amounts of harm in various different ways, then every person who spreads the message that praying to bones is a "good thing" is contributing.

You're right, it may well be that some people are too far gone. There's some theists on this board that I could pretty much say there is no hope of them ever being free of it. That's really sad, and I have tried with all of them at various stages, where possible. The thing is, in my opinion anyway, you only need it once you've been hooked on it in the first place. I highly doubt that people totally unaware of worshiping some bones will coincidentally find themselves in desperate need of some bone worship by their own accord. No one would ever come to need christianity without coercion either. Other superstitions develop naturally, sure, but they are much more under control and harmless when it's little groups all having their own nutty ideas rather than legions of deluded people marching to the same drum.

[Mr Greene]

Catholics certainly do have the saintly relics thing, and it is or was big business for them which is why you get the various fakes here there and everywhere as relics were traded between churches thus giving a new income stream from pilgrims. Of course the old site wouldn't want to give up the income stream so replacement relics were inserted into the shrines.
Personally this is one of the things that promotes Catholic and Orthodox churches over any form of protestantism as they are far more picturesque and architecturally interesting.
Protestant churches can all be bulldozed as eyesores by comparison.

[Anomalocaris]

RE: Christians mistakenly praying to bones of beasts

Fixed that for you. Needn't be overly specific.